Additional HD

18 replies [Last post]
Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

A colleague starting Video editing and already has learned from wiser people that he should consider an additional HD. He has a fairly new PC with a single 80g HD and runs XP. He has considered the options of either having an additional INTERNAL drive or an EXTERNAL one. He seems to have come down in favour of external. Can readers give any suggestions to best make/model for about 160/200g drive please. Best online supplier???

Second question that is confusing me. He know little about PC's and has just discovered that his 80g is just about full and now he can't run anything. I have called to see him and have removed all his video and photos but amazingly the amount on his HD has only decreased a little. I'm blowed if I can work out what is filling it up. I look at all the files in his explorer etc. but can't seem to work it out. Is there something I am missing that should be obvious please? He uses it only for his video with virtually nothing in general office work.
Pete

alan eades
Offline
Joined: Oct 3 1999

I hope you remembered to empty the Recycle Bin

Alan.

harlequin
harlequin's picture
Offline
Joined: Aug 16 2000

1. pata or sata ?
2. i suggest , at the moment , stay away from maxtor.
3. i would buy another internal , unless you can get a firewire external for approx same cost.
4. system restore can swallow large ammounts of disk space , as can tmp files/internet files.
5. online isn't always much cheaper than a local dealer , and local dealers don't like you complaining in the shop if things go wrong.
6. look at curries / dixons / etc prices at the moment , some are silly at the weekends.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

Thanks for the quick replies. Alan . . . . Tut – tut . . . Even I am not that thick.

Gary. My colleague felt the external drive might be better for him and it is virtually ‘plug-in-and-play’ (so we are told?) and the fact that he could unplug and take it off the Video Club PC. Or are there hidden snags that we haven’t taken into consideration on this aspect? Just for interest, his PC is not connected to the web so all the problems that might be associated there don’t apply. Thanks Pete

Alan Roberts
Alan Roberts's picture
Offline
Joined: May 3 1999

Internal should be more reliable (you're less likely to drop it), but external works well. I have external drives that I use for moving stuff around between PCs, it works extremely well as long as you strictly observe the rules. In theory, either USB2 (not USB1 or 1.1) or firewire connection will be fine for video (I have, and use, both). But firewire has a nice advantage in that many of the enclosures (the boxes the drives are in) work as a daisy-chain, so you can stack extra drives on the same cable, and you can plug your camcorder into the final one. It all works, that's how I'm doing HDV on a laptop now.

Rule 1: never, never, never, just unplug a drive. Always use the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in your sys tray to close the drive before you switch it off or unplug it. If you follow this rule, you'll always force the computer to finish off any procewss it's part way through. If you don't you'll lose files or parts of files.

Rule 2: there is no rule #2.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Alan Craven
Offline
Joined: Jan 26 2001

Is the computer still under warranty? If so, does this allow opening the case and adding drives?

I would second Gary's suggestion of looking at high street retailers - I got two 250GB Samsung drives for the price of one in PC World a few weekends ago! Just over £70 as i recall.

One thing that can fill up a drive and not show in explorer is orphan Recycler folders. To see these you will have to alter the settings for hidden and for system files in the View files tab of folder options.

Dave R Smith
Offline
Joined: May 10 2005

Hi Pete,
He's not on web, so not a 'history' issue.
He captues / edits video, - maybe there is video other than in the 'my_video' folder, or temporary processed (preview) files tucked in program_files.
Perhaps do a search via the tool on explorer for his normal video format avi, mpg, etc.
(I get the impression your search todate was 'manuayl' via explorer.)

Then do a search on c drive for all files (including sub-directories) where file size is greater than x mb, to show up all the big files and try and identify 'clag'.
Maybe he loaded tutorial files etc, when he loaded his software?

Alan Roberts
Alan Roberts's picture
Offline
Joined: May 3 1999

I'd put money on there being lots of preview files left hanging around. Premiere was notorious for doing that. You really need to keep a close eye on what's being generated when you start on the video game, because the files are all so huge.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Alan Craven
Offline
Joined: Jan 26 2001

And if you don't use Preferences to put them where you can see them, the previews are tucked away in hidden folders several layers down in Documents and Settings.

Michael.Bradshaw
Offline
Joined: Aug 1 2005

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00076WEQA/qid=1141435198/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/026-6399122-7609212

A friend of mine uses these for backup. Good solid drives with plenty of space and you can't argue with the price. If you are still running out of space make sure to check the amount of space system restore is hogging and also how much room your temporary internet files are taking.

EVGA sr-2/ 2x x5850 win7 x64. Editing in Ppro CS5 Shooting on Sony Z7, nex-VG10

Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

Thanks for all those words of wisdom and tips chaps. I will visit my colleague this evening and try to discover exactly what is almost filling his 80g drive when - in theory- he should have very little on it apart from a few programmes.

Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

Whoopee . . . Thanks for the help and I’ve now been able to clear my colleagues HD of all the unwanted files. The answer was to do, as suggested, look for all files of a certain size and above. That revealed masses. (We learn something every day – so simple really) I’ve done for him defrags etc so he is now happy. From a virtually full 80g HD it’s now down to 14g and no doubt I can clear even more.

What I discovered was that most of these vast files were Pinnacle/auxiliary files. This is as a couple of you had suggested. Now as I don’t use or know anything about Pinnacle video editing programmes, I am assuming that these files are like the Premiere Preview files that I know you must clear out regularly otherwise they will fill up your disc. Does anyone know anything about these Pinnacle Auxiliary files and give me any tips to help my colleague. (Well to help me to help him) I suppose I must go to his machine and look for gen on the help file. (He is 70 and really struggling with his PC)

Another colleague has advised him NOT to buy an additional HD as all he has to do is partition the existing HD and save the expense, but even I know that is not the best of ideas. I went to PC World and another computer shop just for a ‘look-see’ but neither had a Firewire External drive in stock to discuss. Whilst my colleagues PC has a Firewire input, his USB is only V1 so that rules out External USB drives without adding USB2 sockets.

Anyhow thanks again for the tips and any further gen you care to pass to me.
Pete

Dave R Smith
Offline
Joined: May 10 2005

Hi Peter,
I don't use pinnacle, but it's likely the pinnacle version of preview files are in a nominated (or default) location.
Did you make a mental note of the sub-directory where you found the culprits to-date?
This will hopefully give you confidence that you are changing the right setting when you find it.
I would be inclined to make it inside the 'my_documents' area, where the project files should be saved (may also need configuration changing), or even create a new sub_directory within 'my_documents' such as 'temp_video'.
So 66 gig free, 13 gig per hour, so 5 hours worth of space - say 3 hours for source, 1 hour for output and the balance (13/14 gig) for dvd burning and other stuff.

If he needs more space, an external firewire HD is probably the best option, and introduces fewer technical issues when trying to help a friend from a distance.

Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

Thanks Dave,
Well,typical me, I did NOT make a note ofwhere these files are saved. However I'm laying my hands on the book and will consult the help file. Of course as soon as he does another job I will trace the resulting files and take it from there.

I said my friend was 70 . . . . Well I'm a lot older than him. Cheers. Pete

Alan Craven
Offline
Joined: Jan 26 2001

If you can do it, the best place for these project support files is in the same folder as the project. Then when the project is finished and deleted, so are all the extra bits and bats.

There is probably a preferences setting, often in the File or Edit menus - it is in the Edit menu in Premiere - for this. As I said earlier, the default setting is usually several layers down in C:\Documents and Settings, and is often "hidden" by default. Not very helpful to the uninitiated, which lets face it, is most of us!

Alan Roberts
Alan Roberts's picture
Offline
Joined: May 3 1999

There should be an "Options" item somewhere in the menus, or something like it. Or maybe there's a separate utility program to run. But it should offer you the location for capturing files to, and for rendering files to. If you use an extra hard-drive, it makes huge sense to keep all these files on it, including all the project files. That way, the internal drive can be busily whirring away doing computing things while the other drive does all the video things. And it makes it child's play to sort out the files later.

P.S.: fresh info on the difference between USB2 and firewire connection for externals. I'm now working on HDV with Edius Pro and external drives. It's quite noticeable that the same drive (LaCie 250G) connected via firewire is far more stable than when connected via USB2. By this I mean that files (CanopusHQ AVI) will play properly via firewire, but may stop arbitrarily if played via USB2. This is never a problem (for me) at DV speeds, but the HQ files are about 68Mb/s and that seems to be straining USB2.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Peter Stedman
Offline
Joined: Oct 30 2000

Thanks for all the help on the HD for my colleague that seems sorted OK. I'm now going to study the book on his Pinnacle editing programme and the 'aux' files. Pete.
I'm just about to put a query on another subject in another section regard him 'memory'. (The PC's not his . . . .) Pete

Vimeous
Offline
Joined: Mar 10 2006

I recommend not using USB2 external drives for anything other than archiving.

To quote Western Digital:

Quote:
USB 2.0 is the industry standard peripheral connection for most Windows-based computers. This connection transfers data at a maximum rate of 480 Mb/s (60 MB/s). Sustained data transfer rates, usually from 10 to 30 MB/s, vary depending on many factors including the type of device, data being transferred, and computer system speed. If your USB port is an earlier version, USB 1.0 or 1.1, you can use a USB 2.0 hard drive, but transfer rates are slower.
Quote:
FireWire, also called IEEE 1394, is a high-performance connection standard for personal computers and consumer electronics. This connection transfers large amounts of data between computers and peripheral
devices at rates up to 400 Mb/s (50 MB/s).

Taken from here

Basically firewire, despite having a lower maximum transfer rate, is better able to sustain a high rate of transfer and therefore more sutable for use during the editing process.

Regardless of this there is no substitute, in my opinion, two or more individual internal hard drives when video editing. To maximise data transfer rates hard discs they are best kept on separate controllers (opposite controllers of an IDE based system for example). This enables one controller to send and the other to receive data instead of sharing a controller which has to perform both tasks, and across the same cable (for IDE-based systems) potentially slowing the data transfer down when under high load.
I'm currently unsure of how much a SATA-based system with a single controller is affected by this, although by using a single cable per drive the issue may be removed altogether.

In addition separating your active operating system drive from your primary editing data storage drive. This allows the editing program to be performing its various tasks which will involve some writing to and from the disk, while the resulting data is written to a separate disk and not being slowed by having to perform program related operations at the same time.

Please don't partition your hard drive for video editing unless it's to separate a primary boot partition from a virtual-memory/page file partition. Having a boot partition and data partition on the same disk is asking the disk head to perform two jobs at once, running your program and moving around your data. Two heads, and therefore two drives, are better than one to help your system run as fast as possible.

Finding files
Have a look at Treesize Pro or a similar program. It will scan a drive or folder you select and identify where data space is being used. It takes the hassle out of hunting and lets you spend your time dealing with the root cause of the problem.

Summary
Stay internal for editing if you can, if you must go external go firewire and use USB2 for archiving only.

HTH

Work (Mrs Vim)
Panasonic HDC SD20/100/200/300
Dell Precision (Nehalim EP) | Microboards Duplicator
Edius 5.5

Home
Canon XL1s | MA-200
Athlon X2 4200+ | 2Gb | A8N-SLI Premium | 6600GT | SonicFury | 4x 250Gb Maxline III (RAID10) 4x 250Gb WD RE2 (RAID10) | DVDRW | Coolermaster Stacker 830 | Seasonic 700W | 2 x VP171s-2 TFT
Premiere 6.5 | Canopus ADVC 300

Alan Roberts
Alan Roberts's picture
Offline
Joined: May 3 1999

I endorse all that, my 250GB LaCie works perfectly via firewire for Edius in HQ (68Mb/s), but the same drive can't sustain the same signal using USB2.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.