I know ideally you should never see a piece of camera equipment such as a camera hood or part of tripod in shot or for that matter the operator but is it strictly taboo when filming live events.
We mostly record weddings and during the day we sometimes use shots of the Togs as cutaways and will use shots from behind them, taking their photo graphs. ie them in the foreground, couple in the middle, and church in the background.
so if that is acceptable, and in some cases desirable, is it wrong then to have shots of other video camera operators or unattended tripods in the shots?
We like to get in among our guests during the disco and with two cameras moving around its not always possible to keep your eye on the shot and the position of the other camera person so there have been occasions when Ive moved my camer to obtain a shot of a couple doing something silly on the dance floor but the other camera person has wandered into the background to get his shot , or my tripod is visible.
One half of me says that its wrong and shouldnt be there but the other half says if its acceptable to show the tog then it must be acceptable to show the other video camera operator.
Discuss.......
One half of me says that its wrong and shouldnt be there but the other half says if its acceptable to show the tog then it must be acceptable to show the other video camera operator.Discuss.......
My feeling is that anything is OK - as long as it doesn't distract from the main centre of interest. In that respect, a wide shot of the couple with photograher is fine, the photographer IS part of the action.
Trouble with the other cameraman in shot is that they are more incidental, same for tripods etc. Their appearance is more likely to take attention away from the main event than enhance it.
We like to get in among our guests during the disco and with two cameras moving around its not always possible to keep your eye on the shot and the position of the other camera person so there have been occasions when Ive moved my camer to obtain a shot of a couple doing something silly on the dance floor but the other camera person has wandered into the background to get his shot , or my tripod is visible.
Stick BBCHD (or BBC2 if that's not available) on tonight at 10pm and watch Later Live with Jools Holland and count how many times you see a camera or other bit of gear in shot. I can guarantee you'll need all fingers and toes and probably your wife and kids as well :) On the other hand, they are never the focus of the shot, so I wouldn't worry about seeing bits of kit or crew in shot, after all you are making a documentary of a real event, not a drama. In fact, Norman Stone filmed through the viewfinder of the digibeta camera with another for his Omnibus documentary about Dudley Moore.
The only thing that really matters is that the shot is advancing or adding to the narrative. If it does, then it goes in. If it doesn't, then it gets cut...
Steven
And if someone gets caught in shot for christ sake dont duck or try and bob out of the way as it draws more attention to you and looks naff, you might as well wave at the camera:D
:d
And if someone gets caught in shot for christ sake dont duck or try and bob out of the way as it draws more attention to you and looks naff, you might as well wave at the camera:D
This has irritated me for nearly 20 years, but I suspect I have done it myself to other people. It is an instinct when you suddenly see a camera. Also I suppose you could argue that if you are going to be edited out then quick ducking can save a couple of frames. In any case rather than getting better as people get used to camcorders it seems to be getting worse.
We try to stay out of shot when ever possible & I`ve also developed a technique that works very well if the camera viewing the offending piece of kit/cameraman etc is still & you have a previous shot where the item was not in shot, but very occasionally you have no alternative but to allow it.
It pretty much depends on your content.
If it was a TV drama then a camera's out of the question. (seen a few reflections in my time though)
I do a few gig shoots and regard it as fine to have a camera in shot
I also do graduations and have seen other teams using a manned camera on stage. I don't aprove of that - but I'd be ok with a camera on the floor or a remote camera in view if it was only just visible.
another regular job is wedding like in that it's a memorial type chapel service and a cmaera person is just visible on a wide shot from the rear but he's under orders to keep tucked in.
It pretty much depends on your content.If it was a TV drama then a camera's out of the question.
Ah, you've never seen The Old Crowd or Gangsters, then?
The first had many scenes where characters walked off the edge of the set into the cameras, technicians etc and the second ended with a long zoom out ending on a very wide shot of the complete studio. Bizarre!
Actually, there are a couple of episodes of Doctor Who where cameras are clearly visible too but those were mistakes! :)
I remember watching "soldier soldier" ( because some of it was shot where i lived - honest!) and a couple in the bedroom had an argument.
the bloke walked around the foot of the bed and passed a mirrored dressing table - maybe 25% of the screen size? You could see an entire crew reflected as the camera panned - slowly.
How they let that through Lord only knows!
When we film football matches, usually from the goalines, we see if we CAN spot ourselves in shot...sometimes very difficult though! :)
Chris
I work mainly in theatres where all the crew wear black, just in case they're seen - on a colourful stage it's quite amazing how these people can be invisible. A crew in black at a wedding might well stand out even more - so maybe you just have to dress the crew to merge into the background, whatever it is?
I used to work in theatre where "blacks" was marked on the crew sheets if you needed them. Black Cords were banned due to the noise they make when moving
My crew "uniform" is blacks - generally a polo shirt as it looks a bit posher than a T but for rock it's a bit less formal. I do a thing in a comercial kitchen and we found a white T shirt is less noticable
I never do the sort of stuff a suit would be needed for
Bear in mind that silly Russian film about the Winter Palace; a single 96-minute HD shot. All the crew were in full costume, except the Steadicam operator/DoP/Director (all the same man) and the guy who carried the disk-recorder pack around behind him.
..in this case (at 1 min 15) the cameramans unplanned inclusion added to the story..
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