Hi there
Could someone give me some advice as this is a new one for me!
I have been asked to film a 100 boat race next year.
They want a camera and operator on the start line, 1 boat leaving every 15 seconds.
Second camera and operator at the finish line.
They would like the family and friends of the people on the boats to watch this live on a screen 4 miles away from all the action (!)
Now I have never done live streaming before, and definately not wirelessly, and I know I dont have the right equipment to do this, but how would this be done?
They have said if this cant be done, would I film directly onto a harddrive in 20 minute intervals, have a dispatch rider take said hardrive to the screen 4 miles away, and so on, and do it that way, so there would be a 30 or so minute delay rather than live, but that is a right faff!
I look forward to your years of wisdom coming through
xx
Sounds like a very difficult job. How much is your budget? You could uplink by satellite, and downlink at the other end - we could help you with that. That would be the most reliable way of doing it. However, you would need deep pockets
The 'Hard Drive' idea is a complete non-starter in my opinion... I can't really see how that would be workable and consistent even if technically possible (how many dispatch riders? How many hard disks? How much risk?) who plays it back at the screen and how, etc.
We've done jobs like this in the past using line of sight microwave transmission where you would have a base station configured for each camera to transmit the picture and audio, then two recievers and a simple way to vision mix at the playout area. However it's a specialist job setting it up. You would also need high-spec microwave kit probably running at 24Ghz to avoid interference. All assuming you have line of sight. There are ways of doing it non-line-of-sight, but I won't bore you with the details.
In a similar way to satellite that Chris suggests, that gets very expensive very quickly even if hiring kit in... you need specialist help. But probably a little cheaper than satellite though. If you want two cameras and two links then that effectively doubles the cost. You should be thinking in thousands rather than hundreds and that's just the cost to you.
You would also need considerable manpower, specialist help, time to set it up and test - probably on a separate day's 'dress rehearsal' as well as a fair amount of time to set up on the actual day too.
To be blunt if the budget is there, in this case they would be best hiring someone who specializes in this kind of work and is kitted up correctly.
No disrespect intended, but as they have approached you and you're not established doing this kind of work, I'm assuming their budget is fairly small or it's a friend. But unfortunately you may have to explain how complex the job is and that as in life, you can't always get a Ferrari for the price of a Mini. :D
Hi Chrome
n a similar way to satellite that Chris suggests, that gets very expensive very quickly even if hiring kit in... you need specialist help. But probably a little cheaper than satellite though. If you want two cameras and two links then that effectively doubles the cost. You should be thinking in thousands rather than hundreds and that's just the cost to you.
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Yes I had a very interesting conversation with Chris yesterday about this (lovely man).
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No disrespect intended, but as they have approached you and you're not established doing this kind of work, I'm assuming their budget is fairly small or it's a friend. But unfortunately you may have to explain how complex the job is and that as in life, you can't always get a Ferrari for the price of a Mini. :DI did explain to the people involved that I was not established is this line of work at all, but they asked me to look into it, and this has all been explained in full.
The other option I may put to them is recording it onto my 2 Sony HDD handycams, and then take them to the boathouse and upload to a laptop, and show?
Just echo Chris and Chrome's remarks, microwave or sat are the best options for quality but at a cost that may be way too much, do you still need licences for microwave links these days?
Have you talked to BT to see if they can provide a high speed data link that could carry a video and audio signal at reasonable quality and bit rates ala video conferencing? You will still need to find a way of getting the video into the system but it may be good enough quality for you.
Also get in touch with Charles at microvideo shrewsbury as he did some sat links for a folk festival and I think he bought the kit to do it, his forum name is densicorp and the thread about the festival is here: http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=48969&highlight=folk+festival
I'd agree with all the above, to do it properly will be megabucks.
You could investigate Ustream, free to use but ad supported or to use the non ad Starter version is $99pm. You'd need 2 accounts and 2 computers at the receiving end to watch 2 different streams (one from the start and one from the end), you'd also need a reliable broadband upload/download from both locations.
When I looked this morning there was a live boat race (under the Sport dropdown).
Anyway, it's free to try, I've been playing with it recently along with LiveStream for a possible project coming up in August this year.
at the extreme bottom end of the budget, we were playing around with the idea of videoconferencing about a year ago.
Using iChat and AOL combined, we opened up my computer and two laptops in a mate's office. We established a 3 way video conference with relative ease.
I have no idea if you could substitute the inbuilt camera on an iMac ( I assume that there's a way) and in theory have a camera view at each of the race points and the third riigged to the audience area via a projector.
Pretty heath robinson and far more likely to drop out I'd guess but if there's no money etc....
Taking DaveM's idea a bit further, you could use Skype on a pair of laptops with USB cams at the Start / Finish and send that to 2 laptops at the viewing area. At the same time film the event as normal on your Handycams for editing later. The Beeb often use Skype on broadcast interviews and sometimes it doesn't look that bad, but again you'd need BB access at the sending / receiving locations.
I think trying to do anything other than a proper job will end in tears. I would not entertain it - it only takes a job like that to trash your reputation VERY quickly.
Line of sight transmission over that distance would be risky too - I know it is possible, but, imagine if it fails. No thanks.
Skype? to a large audience on large screens - mmmmm...whilst Skype is great for chatting to family and friends, I would not recommend that for a constant transmission of 2 hours or more. It is a racing certainty to drop out.
It is a racing certainty to drop out.
I'll take that bet......I held a 90 min video Skype call on Sunday to Lincoln Nebraska with HQ video and no dropout.
I'd totally agree with you Chris though, do it properly or at least explain to the organisers the options if the budget isn't there to pay for it. They can than make the call themselves and if it all goes pear shaped they know why!
Just to add to this, if the event is next year, you've plenty of time do do some tests with Ustream, iChat or Skype to show the organisers the possibilities.
yeah,i wouln't do it either but if there's no money
Just to answer Gary's question If I may... no license required for 24Ghz - I don't know about lower frequencies. Very little cost to run once the equipment has been installed, just mains (or batteries) to two 9v transformers to power the emmitter and reciever. If you're running it for say a month, a LOT cheaper than satellite. :)
Good luck kandaroo... not an easy job on a low budget. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. If a 'live' feed is not essential, the two handycams idea would probably be your best (and most 'cost-effective') solution. :D
Thanks everyone for your comments!
If a 'live' feed is not essential, the two handycams idea would probably be your best (and most 'cost-effective') solution. :D
I have spoken to the organisers this morning about the handycams, and they are more than happy with this idea.
The people likely to watch it will be the friends and family of the racers, and the racers themselves when they come in after the race, its not a HUGE big organised day, they just want to see themselves lol.
Its not until feb so I have plenty of time to play around.
xx
I'll take that bet......I held a 90 min video Skype call on Sunday to Lincoln Nebraska with HQ video and no dropout.I'd totally agree with you Chris though, do it properly or at least explain to the organisers the options if the budget isn't there to pay for it. They can than make the call themselves and if it all goes pear shaped they know why!
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That still leaves 30 mins for it to drop (smile!)!!! Seriously, we use Skype a lot, and, yes, it is very much better than it used to be - but still a hell of a risk. I wouldn't want to embarrass myself by doing it that way and then it going wrong. My wife uses Skype to family in Colombia almost daily, and the call quality is still variable.
The thing to remember here is that the viewer doesn't care how much it costs - they ONLY care whether they get to see it working or not. If it fails, it disappoints - end of story.
There's always this set-up from the USA: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-GHz-Microwave-Video-Broadcast-Link-STL-Transmitter-17-/230571752505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35af25bc39#ht_3707wt_1141
Probably totally illegal in this country but shows what can be had for £600 in the USA ;)
Gary, that system is like a smaller poorer relation to our 24GHz units, but it is pretty good value for money, and I don't think it would necessarily be illegal, but licensing should be fairly easy depends on the frequencies used (our units are tuneable to 'license free' frequencies.
However their claim that
5 GHz is the latest frontier to get above it all at an affordable price.
is wrong 24 GHz is the new big gun in town. 2.4 GHz is far too crowded (and mobile phones will interfere with it badly), so many other cheaper systems are now using 5.7-5.8GHz which is rapidly becoming crowded as well and far more prone to interference than 24 GHz. :)