Looking after the Baby Boomers

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Barry Hunter
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I speak in praise of my local NHS clinic! Just had a text asking if I had a Blood Pressure Monitor (which I have) & if so could I let them know what my current readings are. Got to look after the older members of the public smiley A good example of technology working, saves them & me time whilst keeping an eye on patients!

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RayL
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Blood pressure monitors seem to give quite a spread of results, even if one reading is taken immediately after another.  This is not just home machines, it also occurs with those used at clinics and doctor's surgeries.
 
Your activities just prior to the check also make a difference. If you cycle uphill to your doctor's surgery, or if you have just come in from doing some energetic gardening, the results are likely to be misleading.
 
Ray
Barry Hunter
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I put myself into a state of relaxedness smiley The point I was making was that our clinic seems to care which I think is good.

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sleepytom
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Make the most of it, I expect by the time i need it they will of got rid of free health care (just as they got rid of grant supported higher education when i was old enough for that!) 
 
 

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steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I was born when the NHS was a few months old. Everybody, (except those few MPs who voted against it) knew that it would benefit the whole country even though there was scant cash available to pay for it.
Now, its the same sort of self-serving greed that is creating an environment that makes the NHS as it was established, impossible to continue without creeping commercial cherry picking. So eventually, anybody but the rich will live in fear of any illness that requires medical care that cannot be bought cheaply across the counter at Boots.
infocus2
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
For various reasons, we've had quite a lot of experience of the NHS over the last year or so - and I have to say some of it very, very good - but some which makes me want to behave like Victor Meldrew......
 
In general, I am very impressed with the people I've encountered on the clinical side, likewise the overall standard of medicine practiced etc. The downside is the administration and bureaucracy, the appointments system in hospitals, and I can now see why we get the stories about the most vulnerable dying in hospitals for trivial matters such as dehydration.
 
I had a recent two day stay in hospital, and feel fortunate in that I was able to mostly take care of my own needs. But whilst the clinical side seemed to go well, there seems to have developed a huge gap in what I would traditionally refer to as nursing. It seems that nowadays the nurses are rushed off their feet doing duties that previously would have been the role of doctors. Nothing wrong with that as such - good that they are getting extra skilling. But the problem is that it's left a void with nobody to provide the basic caring which is what nursing traditionally was.
 
All I can say is that if a family member goes into hospital, and is too ill to look after themselves, beware. Don't assume that basic needs such as feeding and drinking will be taken care of. I can now see where the stories come from about food being delivered to a patient, then taken away uneaten because "they didn't seem to want to eat it".
 
As far as the admin and bureaucracy, then what seems to be the norm in the NHS would not be tolerated in the average business. As just one example, my son was recently in hospital after a serious accident. On one visit we took him in some letters which had arrived at home. It was a good thing we did. One was details of a procedure which he had to have in a different department the following day. Same hospital, just two floors below. Yet the NHS bureaucracy hadn't informed the ward he was being cared for in - they'd just sent a letter to the home address. With snooty comments about having to re-register if he didn't turn up for the appointment. You couldn't make it up.
 
Yes, slip ups happen, but this was far from an isolated instance, believe me. I suppose that if it has to be the medical side or the bureaucracy that has flaws, then it's better the bureaucracy, but......
 
I've now come to the conclusion that what is really liked and valued about the NHS is the underlying principle behind it - that suitable medical care is available to anyone, regardless of income or savings. But as an organisation, there is a huge amount wrong with it, and not acknowledging that doesn't do anybody any favours. The real problem is fixing the flaws without abandoning the central principle - getting rid of the bathwater without upsetting baby.
paulears
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
The cynic in me wonders if they missed their quota, so phoning around to get some readings shows as great in the database. Probably the results only looked at by the practice manager, who would inform the doctor if any results were over a certain number. My doc told me the local hospital were starting a new system to get you into one of their clinics. I found a lump, doc wanted it checked. I got a letter in a week telling me that in two weeks they would telephone me at 8:10 to make an appointment. They were spot on and the upshot is a doctors visit early March, and a hospital appointment in June. Great new system - making an appointment to make an appointment!
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I doubt that there is a health service in the world that does not have complaints about inefficiency (whatever that is in healthcare) delays (if you or a relative requires attention, any wait longer than instantaneous is too long) and mistakes/failures. The issue has to be considered in the context of cost of the service, as we have had over ten years of cost cutting, flying under the name of 'efficiencies'. As the service doesn't have the same imperatives as a commercial organisation, i.e. profit for shareholders, its left to statistical budget fiddling by administrators and politicians, and  cover-ups of mistakes by those who are expected to do the job as well as other nation's efforts on less per-capita.
That's not to deny that stupid working practices don't exist across the board, but with fire-brigade management going on, who would be prepared to stand up and say, 'let's stop everything and think of a better way to do our job'. I can see the newspaper headlines now; "hospital workers on awayday whilst patients left to die in corridors".
DAVE M
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
they don't help themselves with daft rules.
 
I am diabetic and the tablets have packed in. I feel bloody awful and knew that I need to start injecting,
 
I had a bloodtest and a phone call from the reception desk to make a routine appt at the Dr's.
 
You can make an "emergency" appointment on the morning  but get to see a random Dr.
To ensure continuity I booked to see my own GP. One month and 2 days later, (the earliest appt) I saw him and he said "see the nurse about a conversion to Insulin" (and weighed me)
Excluding the weight, he could have just left a message and I'd have been on course a month earlier.
 
Instead I felt like crap for another month and wasted his time.
 
Arthur.S
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
My wife worked in the NHS for many years. She'll tell you that under staffing has always gone on, with nurses in their first few months of training being left in charge of whole wards at night. Infocus is absolutely right that there is now a void between nurses and other staff. For example, who's responsible for cleaning up blood/vomit? Nurses or cleaning staff? Wouldn't have been an issue previously - now it is. Cleaners etc should be brought back into the NHS instead of as private companies. The ridiculous target culture and the financially disastrous PFI 'initiative' left behind by Blair and co are to blame for today's mess in the NHS. Layers of hopeless so called managers that pay £32 for a gluten free loaf of bread that you or I could buy for £2.50. There needs to be a top down clear out,  and managers need to be actually  held responsible. Will it happen? I doubt it. Responsibility has become a redundant word these days. Nurses having to do a year in basic training is a good start. How did it ever not be so? When I trained as an apprentice printer I accepted that to start with I would be a glorified tea boy, then work my way up the ladder. NOT start half way up! How can you learn anything if you don't know the basics? 
branny
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Despite the huge ammount of dosh  pumped in by the  Labour government, there will always be the feet draggers who won't help a system work, no matter who puts it in place, or how much money is pumped in. Far, far too many overpaid paper shifters and admin checking the 'rules' to actually get on with the  real job of nursing.
 

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
DAVE M wrote:
they don't help themselves with daft rules.
 
I am diabetic and the tablets have packed in. I feel bloody awful and knew that I need to start injecting,
 
I had a bloodtest and a phone call from the reception desk to make a routine appt at the Dr's.
 
You can make an "emergency" appointment on the morning  but get to see a random Dr.
To ensure continuity I booked to see my own GP. One month and 2 days later, (the earliest appt) I saw him and he said "see the nurse about a conversion to Insulin" (and weighed me)
Excluding the weight, he could have just left a message and I'd have been on course a month earlier.
 
Instead I felt like crap for another month and wasted his time.
 
 
Everybody's experience of the NHS is different, yet as with all reported news, its only the bad anecdotes that get reported as representative, particularly by the media. Those who are generally happy with aspects of the service rarely comment, however:
 
I can book an appointment online with my GP (who is at the surgery for three and a half days per week). The booking window is usually 2 weeks hence and I can normally get within the first week about 50% of the time. If I want an urgent consultation, I have so far managed to get one every time on the same day, and as I recall, only twice not got one with the preferred doctor.
Getting outpatient appointments at hospitals in the local group can be tedious where the need is not classified as urgent, but services such as eye examinations and ultrasound scans are performed at small units attached to local group practices and their response times are, so far, prompt.
 
That's the experience of one household, and the few neighbours who have commented. Just like the other anecdotes, difficult to draw meaningful conclusions from them.
 
 
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I have a rare form of Arthritis. I am not able to go on any advanced treatments because of another condition. As a consequence I have had to retire early. I am on a treatment regime which leaves me constatly fatigued. January appt:-  I am due to start a new additive to this treatment subject to a test - which I had in February. No problem found ! The treatment is astonishingly cheap , but there is only one person in the entire world that can start this for me and that is the specialist nurse. I will see her in early June having been cancelled from April because she is on holiday.
On complaining about the length of time to get the next slot. I get informed it`s a question of budget allocation.
Don`t go fooling yourselves  that we ( the baby boomers ) are being looked after , and I am in London.
Eventually , just like immigrants , we will be the ones who are to blame for the high cost of NHS.
 
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
I have a rare form of Arthritis. I am not able to go on any advanced treatments because of another condition. As a consequence I have had to retire early. I am on a treatment regime which leaves me constatly fatigued. January appt:-  I am due to start a new additive to this treatment subject to a test - which I had in February. No problem found ! The treatment is astonishingly cheap , but there is only one person in the entire world that can start this for me and that is the specialist nurse. I will see her in early June having been cancelled from April because she is on holiday.
On complaining about the length of time to get the next slot. I get informed it`s a question of budget allocation.
Don`t go fooling yourselves  that we ( the baby boomers ) are being looked after , and I am in London.
Eventually , just like immigrants , we will be the ones who are to blame for the high cost of NHS.
 
 
My sympathies John, as I said, experience varies. It seems that I am managing to get a reasonable service where others don't. There are so many variables, its not just post code which is the handy label for the media. I'm glad I don't still live in south west Essex where i was brought up for many reasons, but it seems that hospital services are under the microscope there now. What I knew as King George V and Oldchurch establishments seem to be the source of much bad press.
My concerns are for the future, where everything that your GP recommends has a direct impact on his/her budget, so the temptation to prioritise patients (customers?) according to the likely financial hit on his funds may get very compelling.
 
The OP called this thread 'Looking after the Baby Boomers' who as a group are either already retired or close to it. This government is increasingly creating a social divide where working 'taxpayers' are worthy of government support and everybody else is a burden on those taxpayers. When the current election commitment to keep the blue-rinse voters happy with their pensions is dropped at the next election, will there be tacit acceptance that retired people don't contribute to the nation's good so why waste taxpayer's money on their health? That would also reduce the likely number of years that they claim their pension, (reclassified as a 'benefit').
 
So don't get too excited with the Daily Mail's call for abandoning our commitment to the EHCR to spike a few suspected terrorists and a few thousand hardy Romanians, we could be needing it ourselves sometime soon.
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Thank you for your good wishes. I am under no illusions, But I do have a good Doc (GP) who applauds my current thinking with dealing with my condition. I have taken control of it`s day to day management. I have also decided not to claim any state benefit apart from carers credit ( i still have 3 years to go for full NI contributions) and that is non monetary. I get carers credit by dedicatiing at least 20 hours per week to voluntary care & support split between 2 vulnarable adults who are in a supported independent living environment , and not a care home. - which is cheaper for the Local authority. So do not consider myself a burden to others anyway - Whilst I can still move , I will.
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I've been a NHS customer on and off for a few years now.   Skin cancer Ops, Hernia Op, and a couple of Prostate Ops.   Have yet another Hernia that has an eye kept on it for the time being.    First Op was for prostate.   Midnight,  asked nurse to refill the drip.   Said she'd do it shortly.   Hours went by and no refill - I never sleep very well in a hospital!   Come change-over time at 0530 and she came around prior to leaving when I pointed out that she hadn't refilled my drip.   Said she'd done it during the night.   It takes over six hours for a drip to empty at the rate of my then usage!   (She had lied).  I've since had another Prostate operation, a Hernia Op and several exploratory ventures.    Anyway, here's one of my other experiences for anyone to note . . .  and sorry about the length . . .
 
The form said "You should arrive at 1.15pm on Friday, 13th August, 2010.  Come with no jewellery or other metal objects on your body - all removed. No food for a minimum of six hours before your arrival time. No drink except a little water at least two hours beforehand. Bring a dressing gown and bed slippers. The complete procedure will be explained to you but please read the attached literature which gives all the advice you will need regarding it."
 
I arrived at the small private hospital in the rain and found the car park full except for a space on the Invalids' section which had a sign firmly stating the case. I parked on it, waited a short while then made a tortoise-like dash for the entrance in the rain, leaving my wife sitting in the car, waiting for a more opportunistic moment.
 
Inside, I explained my parking situation and offered my car keys for staff removal if necessary. "That will be all right" they said. "Keep the keys."
I was booked in and waited, reading the supplied newspaper, then identity checked, I was ushered to an upstairs room with the usual ward type facilities. Told to strip off and don one of those flimsy, back fastening gowns, I obediently complied whilst the lady nurse busied herself looking at nothing in particular hanging on the wall. My wife had arrived in the meantime and after determining a rough estimate of the time it would take, had left for coffee somewhere.   The lady nurse disappeared for a short while whilst another lady took particulars of my past experiences in life as well as my full identity particulars all over again. They already know a lot, these ladies - and they find out a lot more!

After dutifully supplying the enquiring mind with the demanded details, the moment of bowel cleansing had arrived. "On your side, please, with your legs drawn up so that I can see properly. I obeyed. She started to push the tube inwards and I gave a short gasp. "It's caught on something" I said. "A part of your haemorrhoids" she said, and made another stab inwards which thankfully succeeded. "In about ten minutes you will feel the first urge to pass a motion. Hold on as long as you can, using your muscles to resist as long as possible. That way you will achieve the best result."   I did.
 
Came the time for escorting me to the Op table; but this wasn't to be an Op this time. A procedure. An examination of the deepest sort one can endure whilst not being temporarily made to be non-compos-mentis. I'd read all about it. Knew about it anyway, having had it performed once before but steadfastly listened whilst it was fully explained all over again.
 
The 'table' was lowered and I was instructed to climb aboard then turn onto my side, facing the television screen with my legs drawn up close so that my rear end could be fully exposed to all and sundry that stood behind. The 'table' height was then adjusted upwards and metal bars were erected either side so that I had no way of rapid escape.
 
"You will feel some smoothing jelly being applied now." I waited expectantly. "I'm now going to insert the television tube into your bottom and you will see on the screen each movement of progress that it makes." I watched. "Right, as you can feel and see, it has now entered your sigmoid area and I will progress it through the complete area of your lower bowel system." The hurt began. I knew what was there and what was further to come. As the pain and anguish increased I found myself gripping the rail in front of my face with my right hand whilst the other hand placed under my chin was involuntarily clenched hard. At the same time I watched, fascinated by the inside of my bowel system, and all the time hoping that what was thought would be found, wasn't! 
 

One of the nurses came round the bed and released my firmly gripped hold from the 'table' rail.    Within seconds I was much more firmly gripping that rail and imagining a malicious audience out of sight to my rear . . .

The travelling electronic eye revealed raw flesh with bubbles and mild slime here and there inside the bowel tubing, then that first scene of the inside tubing rapidly disappeared, replaced by a wall of bubbling flesh which I couldn't really comprehend, having reasoned that I would watch the tunnel-like structure all the way. I had forgotten how much the pain increases. The grips on the bars,  it was now both hands,  improved no end (If you'll forgive the pun).   Almost gaspingly, with the searching eye reaching a point just under my rib cage, I heard a far off voice say, "Okay, I've reached the extent of your lower bowel and I will now commence withdrawing, and you should feel just a little relief from it all." 'Little' was the operative word to an extreme.
 
As the malicious electronic eye made its way towards the exit, the pain did actually subside somewhat but it wasn't until the final extrication occurred that the body system was decidedly on its way back to normal.    (However, I was to remember the occasion for what now seems like eternity . . . The returning slight aching feeling accompanied by the mildest sickness feeling has been with me on and off ever since.)   "You will need to remain near to the bathroom for a while until the air which I have inserted in you has expelled" the voice said. "You can get down now. I saw nothing seriously wrong anywhere and I will inform your doctor accordingly." I climbed down off the table bed and noted that the owner of the voice was a man who almost immediately disappeared - and I never saw him again!
 
Making for the bathroom in my room, I skilfully made the seat before any mishap could occur. You will never know of the extent of relief that was present. The rush, the sensation of total relaxation combined with the sound of a train passing rapidly through a tunnel; The sudden slumping of the nervous system and reforming into an extremity of pleasure. Oh, the height of it all!
 
A while later, with my wife returned and the lady with the final pages to be seen and signed, and who instructed that tea and biscuits would need to be shortly consumed, signified the finality. As I signed the acknowledgement of the procedure and the result, I was asked if I had yet had a pee. "Yes" I said, although it was a mad guess at such an answer, having had the very recent bathroom experience and not really knowing what had come out from where . . .
 
I am a non-believer in the nonsensical thoughts  of Friday, 13th!   The car was subsequently found to have no threatening piece of paper attached to its windscreen and there was a little rain to help us on our way.
 
Sorrowfully, I nowadays have to admit to that ongoing slight sick feeling now and again as well as now having what appears to be a hernia adjacent to my belly-button.   Did that man with the probing electronic eye get things right I wonder?   As I shortly couldn't see the tunnelling I expected, just that bubbly wall of flesh with that terrible painful progress and its resultant ongoing feeling of sickness every now and again, was my intestine damaged by that probing instrument?  If it was, I feel sure there will be no admission of responsibility in that direction . . . !
 
Two  years have  passed since that painful experience and the spasmodic reminder of something being present when it shouldn’t still fairly regularly makes itself known.   In competition with such a feeling are those arthritic messages constantly transmitted from my lower limbs, especially so my right ankle area  -  but who cares, I’m still clinging to the perch of life with reasonable pleasure and occasional excitement whilst that saying sometimes heard that “it’s good to be alive” has a very special meaning!
 
Christmas time, 2012, was almost upon us and, although I no longer had any reason to believe in Father Christmas, life held that expectant view  of good things to come, together with the expected happiness engendered by surrounding family members whose varying younger views add to the humorous, the sadness, the delight, the reflections, even regrets, the realisation that we humans have much to be thankful for during our stay on this pleasant earth.   I for one care much for that realisation!
 
(I'm in my 86th year.)
Arthur.S
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Thank you for taking the time to post that Ron. It's an experience that most of us will be undertaking at some stage. sad
H and M Video
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Ron, it would make a good film smiley
 
Harry

PC Specialist 3Gz Dual Core, Premiere CS3, Encore CS3, After Effects CS3, Matrox RT.X2, Panasonic HD HS-300, Z1E & PMW-EX3 Cams.
 
Now with a PC Specialist Quad Core i7-3770, 16GB RAM, 180GB SSD, GeForce GTX560 Ti Graphics Card, Blu-Ray & DVD R/W Burners and can't wait to set it up. Now up and running.  What a difference in Blu-Ray footage.

Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Arthur  -  I  hope you don't!
 
Harry  -  pornography is more the business of grandchildren ( I have reason to think ) than my field.   I don't know though; looking at some of the films nowadays it would be perfectly acceptable.   There's no END to what could be!
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Arthur.S wrote:
My wife worked in the NHS for many years. She'll tell you that under staffing has always gone on, with nurses in their first few months of training being left in charge of whole wards at night. Infocus is absolutely right that there is now a void between nurses and other staff. For example, who's responsible for cleaning up blood/vomit? Nurses or cleaning staff? Wouldn't have been an issue previously - now it is. Cleaners etc should be brought back into the NHS instead of as private companies. The ridiculous target culture and the financially disastrous PFI 'initiative' left behind by Blair and co are to blame for today's mess in the NHS. Layers of hopeless so called managers that pay £32 for a gluten free loaf of bread that you or I could buy for £2.50. There needs to be a top down clear out,  and managers need to be actually  held responsible. Will it happen? I doubt it. Responsibility has become a redundant word these days. Nurses having to do a year in basic training is a good start. How did it ever not be so? When I trained as an apprentice printer I accepted that to start with I would be a glorified tea boy, then work my way up the ladder. NOT start half way up! How can you learn anything if you don't know the basics? 
 
I'm wondering if you're right about Blair being the culprit with the inception of the managerial system, Arthur.   I thought it was Thatcher who instigated such a system in keeping with a leaning towards privatising parts of the system for 'efficiency purposes' . . . My wife was the PA to  the manager commencing the commissioning of a main District General Hospital in Sussex and it was a few years before the managers in general came along with their department in the lower area of the hospital being called Carpet Land due to its luxurious setting with money being poured in at the time, followed by the commencement of disputes within the various levels of operation.   Calls commenced being made for a return of the Matron etc., to no avail.
 
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Due to alleged shortage of appropriate staff, the maternity unit at Eastbourne District General Hospital has been split into two parts, the more serious to be dealt with births being taken into the Congress  Hospital at Hastings, 17 miles away, and the expected ordinary deliveries overseen by a midwifery led unit at Eastbourne.   Also, overnight stay provision for children has  been withdrawn, it also being generally dealt with at Hastings.   There has been no assistance to parents in travelling to and from Hastings and Eastbourne hospitals . . . Also, the ambulance service has been severely criticised  for late arrivals to incidents.    The efficiency continues to deteriorate!
 
Local opposition, including from the local MP has  been to  no avail despite a parliamentary decision several years ago against such a move.   The Trust arranging matters has appeared aloof from such opposition, apparently bulldozing its ideas through over time to the extent that the local MP called for the resignation of the Trust's leader.
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Ron Spicer wrote:
 
I'm wondering if you're right about Blair being the culprit with the inception of the managerial system, Arthur.   I thought it was Thatcher who instigated such a system in keeping with a leaning towards privatising parts of the system for 'efficiency purposes' . . . My wife was the PA to  the manager commencing the commissioning of a main District General Hospital in Sussex and it was a few years before the managers in general came along with their department in the lower area of the hospital being called Carpet Land due to its luxurious setting with money being poured in at the time, followed by the commencement of disputes within the various levels of operation.   Calls commenced being made for a return of the Matron etc., to no avail.
 
 
Interestingly, the start of the move away from a medical-led organisation of hospitals to an administrator driven structure was way back in the '60s with the publication of the Salmon report. This instigated the posts of Chief Nursing Officers, Senior Nursing Officers, Nursing Officers who started constructing the whole edifice of administrators, desks and forms that had less and less to do with the actual patient and their reason for being there and more to do with 'management of the hospital' and providing career prospects for those non-medical management roles.
Its inevitable that a public service that (rightly) commands a sizeable chunk of public funds will be too tempting an opportunity for the politicians to dabble in and impress their leaders. The clarion call for 'cost savings through efficiencies' has been with us for many years, and in almost every case, its the patient that makes the saving by getting a less effective service.
What does 'efficiency' mean in terms of healthcare anyway?
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
steve wrote:
 
What does 'efficiency' mean in terms of healthcare anyway?
 
 
Good one, Steve.   Plainly, lowest cost for the service  -  but therein lies the rub because human beings with a personal interest are involved!
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
But 'lowest cost for service' as in the bean counters cutting funding, has today once again been proven to be a delusion. The latest 'good idea' was to slash the funding for the NHS Direct service. Take away the skilled operators and replace them with monkeys in call centres diagnosing real health issues by asking questions shown on a simplistic on-screen route-map. Then give the service a new telephone number and announce it as an upgrade.
It looks like the result is that the callers with genuine problems are ditching the service and going straight to hospitals. The A & E departments are sinking under the additional load so there will need to be massive injections of funding to prevent a complete breakdown of what should be the ultimate in urgent care.
 
Its the same old - 'lets save money at all costs' philosophy introduced by those who in the main never have to rely on NHS services.
infocus2
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
steve wrote:
Take away the skilled operators and replace them with monkeys in call centres diagnosing real health issues by asking questions shown on a simplistic on-screen route-map. Then give the service a new telephone number and announce it as an upgrade.
It looks like the result is that the callers with genuine problems are ditching the service and going straight to hospitals. The A & E departments are sinking under the additional load so there will need to be massive injections of funding to prevent a complete breakdown of what should be the ultimate in urgent care.

All completely true and, I have to say, the situation should have been foreseeable. Be laughable if the implications weren't so serious. One of the best lessons I ever learnt was "never trust an optimist", and the older I get, the truer that seems. It doesn't seem right at first - but the problem with an optimist is that you want to believe them..... Great if they're telling the truth, but unfortunately it's in their nature to talk things up, conceal potential problems, even from themselves. And even more unfortunately, that doesn't mean the problems don't exist - and eventually they come home to roost.

Arthur.S
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
The latest 'statement of the bleedin' obvious'. More people are dying, due to the closure of local A&E's. But they said it'd be a "better quality service" for us didn't they?? wink
Managers aren't bad - but bad managers with a government target system are.
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
I have a rare form of Arthritis. I am not able to go on any advanced treatments because of another condition. As a consequence I have had to retire early. I am on a treatment regime which leaves me constatly fatigued. January appt:-  I am due to start a new additive to this treatment subject to a test - which I had in February. No problem found ! The treatment is astonishingly cheap , but there is only one person in the entire world that can start this for me and that is the specialist nurse. I will see her in early June having been cancelled from April because she is on holiday.
On complaining about the length of time to get the next slot. I get informed it`s a question of budget allocation.
Don`t go fooling yourselves  that we ( the baby boomers ) are being looked after , and I am in London.
Eventually , just like immigrants , we will be the ones who are to blame for the high cost of NHS.
 
 
John  -
 
Reading through your input again I note that "budget allocation" is regarded as more important than patient care . . . !   
 
I think that personnel response to patient queries is regarded on a sort of  business basis.   One of the faults in society today (if Maggie Thatcher would have allowed that word) is that people are doing a job; a separate reasoning from that of being deeply involved in people welfare and care.   The idea of "eating and sleeping" ones occupation has, it seems to me, long gone from the public mind in very many areas; the change of style and thought in hospitals with demarcation disputes and weighted attention to employees rather than patients it seems is sadly forever with us.
 
Those of us who receive excellent treatment and care with completely satisfactory results can nowadays be regarded as the luckier ones.
 
I wish you well with your own dealings.
 
Ron.
 
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Thank you for your good thoughts. My wife is now in the things stuck in you , up you & through you stage. I think she is now wondering what next ? I read your story Ron. Not pleasant at all. I hope that you feel much better. Younger people  will see images of happily retired folks on a cruise somewhere ,knocking back Champagne and enjoying twilight years. The youngsters are of course invincible and invulnarable. I really do find it Ironic that Governments went on the offensive against Smoking ( a pleasure I used to indulge in until 2005 ) and now we are living longer. Maybe we should all have been left alone, been told of the risks , and then what happens to our health is all ours with nobody else to blame ?
Arthur.S
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
"Maybe we should all have been left alone, been told of the risks , and then what happens to our health is all ours with nobody else to blame ?"
 
The nanny state of today does drive me mad too John, but the rub with your comment above is that you're almost certainly going to be in hospital/at the doctors far more using up valuable resources due to a self inflicted illness. That's the catch 22 question; Why should society as a whole pay for those things? Does "nobody else to blame" mean you pay for your own treatment if you develop lung cancer through smoking? Society has a responsibility to look after the less fortunate among us - whether that's bad health, or no food or whatever. We're all an accident of birth after all. But if an adult knows they are potentially causing themselves harm, who pays the hospital bills?
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
If it were me in charge , I would try in the first instance to alter behaviour. I can`t have any advanced treatments for my condition and yes some of the primary condition was because of a lifestyle choice. I am not going to whinge about it and demand  that I get fixed - because the conclusion has already been arrived at in theory. which goes something like the wekest link in the chain will break first , and then the next weekest if something isn`t done to strenghten the whole chain.And , as for treatment, where does the line get drawn ? I am not wise enough to answer that. I just hope to be a bit more elegant at my end of my life.
RayL
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
If it were me in charge , I would try in the first instance to alter behaviour.
 
Let's take drug users (heroin, cocaine, marihuana, tobacco, etc) as an example.  Choosing to take harmful, addictive drugs is by definition a stupid thing to do. To continue to harm oneself shows weakness. What can society do about weak, stupid people? Leave them to be weak and stupid until the medical consequences catch up with them and then say "Aah, poor things, they couldn't help it"?. Or, as John AV says, try to alter behaviour?
 
Surely it has to be more sensible to try and alter behavior (by making it very, very clear just how stupid it is) then simply to patch up people after they have self-harmed?
 
Ray
 
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
Thank you for your good thoughts. My wife is now in the things stuck in you , up you & through you stage. I think she is now wondering what next ? I read your story Ron. Not pleasant at all. I hope that you feel much better. Younger people  will see images of happily retired folks on a cruise somewhere ,knocking back Champagne and enjoying twilight years. The youngsters are of course invincible and invulnarable. I really do find it Ironic that Governments went on the offensive against Smoking ( a pleasure I used to indulge in until 2005 ) and now we are living longer. Maybe we should all have been left alone, been told of the risks , and then what happens to our health is all ours with nobody else to blame ?
 
I think I understand your mentality in this matter, John.   There are many who theorise that a shorter but much more pleasant, indulged life, is worth it rather than an existence of awareness and care with a later life of longevity and constant pain and anguish.  You probably lie somewhere between the two.   When the actual time of our ending approaches though, the hitherto lightly treated subject in many cases becomes an acute awareness. 
 
There was a time when I scorned those who failed to accept the damaging lifestyle they deliberately chose, especially after the warnings on tobacco many years ago, and persisted in smoking, combined often with excessive alcohol and insufficient exercise   However, we all know how such things can affect us in the most pleasant way, particularly when we are younger and more carefree so, being as old as  I am with a lifetime experience behind me,  I'm decidedly more lenient nowadays with my viewpoint.   In any case, in those early days, I had the advantage of reading all the literature regarding the effect of carcinogenic substances as well as comparing the pink lungs of a young unadulterated  body with that of the degenerated brownish bad looking lungs of a smoker.   Not surprisingly I stopped smoking at the age of about 28, as did my wife and we've also lived an exhilarating, healthy life after retiring early.
 
Returning to the position at Eastbourne DGH  and its removal of skilled maternity care to Hastings, the first incident has already occurred when a women with expected delivery problems was being rushed by her husband in their car to Hastings Maternity Unit and giving birth in the car . . .  What, I wonder, will happen next?
 
For most who wouldn't  know, Eastbourne has a population in excess of Hastings and is growing faster.   We are still wondering how and why the Trust dealing with the local hospitals' managed to allow such a situation to arise over time as well as how it manages to decide on removing an important part of the Eastbourne Hospital systems against the advice of many experienced specialists in the particular fields of expertise.
 
 
 
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
RayL wrote:
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
If it were me in charge , I would try in the first instance to alter behaviour.
 
Let's take drug users (heroin, cocaine, marihuana, tobacco, etc) as an example.  Choosing to take harmful, addictive drugs is by definition a stupid thing to do. To continue to harm oneself shows weakness. What can society do about weak, stupid people? Leave them to be weak and stupid until the medical consequences catch up with them and then say "Aah, poor things, they couldn't help it"?. Or, as John AV says, try to alter behaviour?
 
Surely it has to be more sensible to try and alter behavior (by making it very, very clear just how stupid it is) then simply to patch up people after they have self-harmed?
 
Ray
 
 
It is so easy for any of us who have never taken drugs or smoked heavily to see the intelligent way of life that should be led, Ray    You include the mentality and weakness of such  people which cannot be denied.   However, we know that many of the very young are willing - always have  been - to take life risks, enjoying with others  what is often seen at the time as part of the very pleasant fruits of living.     Especially in large mixed company with music and carefree attitudes being abundant.   None of  us can stop it.   Such stupid actions, it seems, have to take their course amongst such individuals.   Others have such a dejected view of life and see drug taking as a way of relieving their state of mind.   One of the 'tricks' is to be able to watch for the signs of rehabilitation being sought and then assist the individual with oodles of care and understanding whilst treatment is being effected.  A most frustrating and worrying time for many families with a large number of affected individuals again succumbing to the injurious habit, often unable to resist the deep urgent call for bodily satisfaction that was originally a mind fuzzing pleasant experience shared with others.
 
Regarding any idea of leaving such people to suffer their own consequences, it is cheaper for the NHS and  better for all concerned to try and treat rather than leave them to their vices.   Such mind  bent persons most times realise the stupidity of their habit but cannot overcome with any measure of ease the mind wrenching calling caused by the drugs.   Anyone who has smoked will aver how hard it is to give up smoking normal tobacco products which is a far weaker hold than the drugs used by youngsters today, hence education at the the earliest opportunity over a prolonged period of time being part of the answer to a very serious problem  -  and I personally consider that schools and parents combined do not do enough at that right earlier time.
RayL
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Ron Spicer wrote:
Regarding any idea of leaving such people to suffer their own consequences, it is cheaper for the NHS and  better for all concerned to try and treat rather than leave them to their vices.  . . . . hence education at the the earliest opportunity over a prolonged period of time being part of the answer to a very serious problem  -  and I personally consider that schools and parents combined do not do enough at that right earlier time.
 
Visits by school parties to hospitals and clinics to see the results of stupidity? It would have more effect than 'playing a video in class'.
 
The idea of legalising drugs to make it easier for the weak and stupid to be weak and stupid seems entirely the wrong approach.
 
Ray
 
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Those who spout the anti 'nanny state' argument seem to fall into two groups:
 
1) those who are committed to their lifestyle, be it nicotine, alcohol, drugs, bad food habits, lack of reasonable exercise etc.. I imagine that their hostility to good advice is a combination of guilt and concern that one day they may have to change their ways.
2) those that don't have any of the weaknesses that lead them into bad habits and don't see why any of 'their' tax should be spent on others. They are of course selective with their criticism according to the situation that their friends and relatives are in.
 
For both groups, the emotive 'nanny state' words tend to be wrapped-up in freedom from government interference parlance and a 'when I was young, people were left to take responsibility for their own actions' attitude.
 
In my opinion, every individual is at a disadvantage when choosing lifestyle. Its not just one single point of decision for each of these bad habits; e.g. the tobacco and alcohol companies are part of legally established drug industries. Their marketing is some of the most powerful of all products, (tobacco marketing still goes on in more subtle ways despite the ban on direct media advertising in the UK). Alcohol advertising is particularly aggressive through much aspirational and lifestyle promotion. Processed foods are being adulterated with salt, sugar and fats to hook ever younger children into a life of bad habits, but the advertising focuses on fun and 'health' using young healthy actors to create a 'must have' longing in the viewer's minds. It all helps secure future profits.
With the industries' massive budgets, the advertising is crafted to negate any efforts by the authorities to guide the individual along a reasonably healthy path. If any attempt is made to control either products themselves or even their promotion, there are cries of restriction of trade from the industry concerned and of course the 'freedom of the individual' to do what he likes.
For me the bottom line is that advice may work with some, but ultimately, the government will need to proscribe some consumable items and/or the outrageous advertising that the public are exposed to. I haven't mentioned NHS above at all but in the end, but in truth, that's the service that we are paying for to pick up the pieces.
 
Rant over.
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
All those in favour of putting all above arguments into a nutshell that has "We are all consumers" say aye ! As for end of life , My son died in my arms - there is nothing more life changing than that. That event summoned the beginning of another way of thinking. I personally am not afraid of death and I can say that with clear uncluttered thought. I am serving a purpose with my life. When that work has finished , that will be the time I expire. In the meantime , I am being the best ( compassionate  Human) person I can ever be. I will go with I hope a smile.
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
RayL wrote:
Ron Spicer wrote:
Regarding any idea of leaving such people to suffer their own consequences, it is cheaper for the NHS and  better for all concerned to try and treat rather than leave them to their vices.  . . . . hence education at the the earliest opportunity over a prolonged period of time being part of the answer to a very serious problem  -  and I personally consider that schools and parents combined do not do enough at that right earlier time.
 
Visits by school parties to hospitals and clinics to see the results of stupidity? It would have more effect than 'playing a video in class'.
 
The idea of legalising drugs to make it easier for the weak and stupid to be weak and stupid seems entirely the wrong approach.
 
Ray
 
 
It is difficult to the point of being impossible for visits to hospitals by school groups.   Body  parts are owned by the relatives.   One thing which can be achieved is visits to mortuaries but that also requires the permission of relatives as well as the mortician system; a time consuming and most times objectionable event for the system.  Fitting in is paramount.  
 
Some parents, believe it or not, would object to their tender offspring  being 'subjected' to the horror of  dead bodies or their parts!   So, all in all, a good idea possibly achieved with the utmost difficulty or not at all.    Even graphic images shown on a TV screen are subject to objection by parents who wish to keep the world away from their tender little beings  -  and those could well be the ones who end up chasing drugs when they are somewhat older!  
 
Behind the scenes, there is abject despair with humanity over the treatment of drug addition.   Like tobacco and alcohol, the draw is so strong amongst the young who 'just like to try it' to see for themselves - and then many 'fall down' with the habit.
 
Legalising drugs of a certain level is hailed as being successful by some  in certain areas.   The main reason for doing so is down to the desperate state of mind endured by those who find no other way forward after a long time trying all other possible methods and seeing a possibility of at least getting more 'drugees' off the hook.   My own view is that, as now with alcohol and tobacco problems,  over a long period of time later we will have to support an even larger amount of people at an older age with many more disparate  problems.   Like tobacco intake on its own, there is present for the future a number of body failings in the making, and drugs used through smoking anyway, are no different.
 
Something that smokers experience when taking drugs with their smoking, such as cannabis, is a double urge to keep with the habit, nicotine addiction as well as cannabis addiction  -  as some politicians might say, a double whammy! 
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
DAVE M wrote:
they don't help themselves with daft rules.
 
I am diabetic and the tablets have packed in. I feel bloody awful and knew that I need to start injecting,
 
I had a bloodtest and a phone call from the reception desk to make a routine appt at the Dr's.
 
You can make an "emergency" appointment on the morning  but get to see a random Dr.
To ensure continuity I booked to see my own GP. One month and 2 days later, (the earliest appt) I saw him and he said "see the nurse about a conversion to Insulin" (and weighed me)
Excluding the weight, he could have just left a message and I'd have been on course a month earlier.
 
Instead I felt like crap for another month and wasted his time.
 
 
First of all, Dave, you didn't waste his time; he wasted yours  -  at your utmost discomfort.   Second, for a diabetic having to wait for two months is absolutely preposterous and my guess is that, had you been seen by one of the other doctors not used to your complaint, you would likely had an arrangement far faster than that you describe.    It doesn' t always pay to become reliant on one doctor, even though one may have been seen by him for years and the instance you quote could have been an eye-opener for you without disturbing a believed relationship you've had with your regular doctor.
 
One thing with doctors we should all remember  -  it is a business!
Mark M
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
RayL wrote:
The idea of legalising drugs to make it easier for the weak and stupid to be weak and stupid seems entirely the wrong approach.
 
 
I don't know of anywhere that's legalised drugs as such but many places have decriminalised possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use, and are regarding drug use as a public health issue rather than a criminal problem. It's a tacit admission that the "war on drugs" can never be won, so rather than sinking huge amounts of money into fighting that losing battle, that money is diverted into treatment, rehabilitation and prevention.   Portugal is a good model of how this has been done successfully. Here's a good article from Fox News (hardly the liberal press) on what's happened there.
 
I think this is entirely the right approach.

And I'm not so sure that legalising drugs is the wrong approach. When the US tried to make alcohol illegal,  what happened? Now compare the alcohol prohibition era with the current era of drug prohibition... see any similarities?

The libertarian idea of legalising everything allows market forces to come into effect. You then get regulation,quality control, and government income from taxation. And of course there's investment opportunity, legitimate employment, and consumer choice. 

Anyhow, this is too big a subject to be dealing with on a video forum, but for those who are genuinely interested there are a lot of very interesting models of drug legalisation being put forward, and to many people they make a lot of sense. However, it's a huge political nettle to grasp, and to do so it to admit that the "war on drugs" has been lost. But for places like Portugal it's paying off in reducing - drastically - their drug problem.

 

 

 

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ChrisG
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
My  father  died at  53  from complications with  type 1, shouldn't have  but  gives  me a  view.  Prognosis is much better these days
 
Second issue of  legalisation of class "x" "y" or  "z" - wait until you  have a  teenager and then see  what the  real situation is,....be prepared to  be  depressed
DAVE M
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
drugs are already legal, it's just a matter of what you regard as a "drug"
 
Various experts have said that we would never make alcohol or smoking legal if we were starting over, and various illegal drugs are safer than those legal ones.
 
I'm unsure as to the effects of legalisation of every drug available but people like Keith Richards proves that although you may not approve of a heroin addiction, the risks are mainly in the illegal "cut" drug and if you can (like him) afford a good quality, it's actually safe, within the limits that overuse can ever be safe.
 
A junkie/addict on the streets causes massive crime, stealing several hundred quid's worth of stuff and damage to sell on for a few quid to get an illegal product that is supplied by often armed gangs that use violence. You could argue ( I don't know) that by making the stuff state supplied, you'd remove the crime of organised criminal supply and the crime needed to pay over the odds.
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
ChrisG wrote:
My  father  died at  53  from complications with  type 1, shouldn't have  but  gives  me a  view.  Prognosis is much better these days
 
Second issue of  legalisation of class "x" "y" or  "z" - wait until you  have a  teenager and then see  what the  real situation is,....be prepared to  be  depressed
 
Been through it, Chris.   Oldest son, a high flyer at grammar who should've known better fell for it all.   I was assertive, careful, watchful, and extremely supportive resulting in success.    That was 40 years ago and he's now happily married, in a senior industrial position with three teenage children who've been carefully guided through their teenage years with success.   Our other two children, also with grown-up children of their own have avoided the drug trap by using good guidance and careful loving attention  -  and I still think they have all been very lucky . . . !
 
I make the strong point that intelligence has little to do with the drug habit being avoided; it is open to all.    Strength of character and a close family relationship probably helps the most.
 
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Thought I'd pass on information about  yet another of my adventures in the NHS . . .
 
Had an Op for skin cancer on my chest.  First time experiencing that sort of thing and found it rather upsetting because I wasn't too sure of the overall seriousness.   
 
Op went OK.   Woke up feeling fine and went home.
 
A few days later they called me  back, telling me I needed a further Op to ensure satisfaction.   That time I was fully awake with a local anaesthetic  and could sense what felt like a scraping of my rib bones.    Imagination was running riot and I was really troubled.   However, the staff were very cheerful and seemed confident of the final result so home I went, feeling in a reasonable state of mind even though the stitches on my chest were looking like a ladder with wonky rungs and the skin pulled completely out of shape. 
 
About a fortnight later it was time for the stitches to come out and I attended the DGH hospital at Eastbourne.   The nurse was cheerful, chatting away as she extracted the stitches and full of confidence.   I was happy too and went home feeling quite satisfied with matters.
 
A week later I was feeling very sore on the chest and a little 'sicky' so I 'phoned the cancer unit at Brighton where I had already been booked in for continued observation and I was told 'come over immediately for an examination.'   The young lady doctor who attended me explained that some stitches had  been left in and they were probably the direct cause of my problem!   Thankfully, what seemed like only hours later I was feeling bodily improved but mentally disturbed at what I considered to be an inefficiency.   However, although I had experienced yet another failing in the system due to staff action or lack of it, I didn't complain.   Didn't want to rock the boat and maybe cause a demotion or dismissal.   Today, I'm more firm of mind on matters because I attribute much of the NHS problems to lack of staff attention to duty, demarcation and all that stuff,  with probably quite a number of individuals not 'pulling their weight' in many ways.
 
I have witnessed other details within the system which maybe I should've commented on to the hospital but didn't . . .
 
Returning to the present situation at the DGH in Eastbourne, a number of senior consultants have jointly published a letter in the local press  complaining that the change of system, with many patients and expectant mothers who are facing birth difficulties having to go to Hastings for treatment, is a dangerous position to be in and forecast that very serious results are waiting to occur.   One expectant mother facing difficulties had already given birth in a car between Eastbourne and Hastings in the presence of her husband.   The Trust charged with the responsibility of running the show have responded with the excuse that the complete change is only temporary and nobody at the moment believes it because promises to abide by the parliamentary decision that such moves should not occur have been ignored!
steve
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Will this be the next drive to unburden the new efficient NHS from being put upon by us malingerers?:
 
 
I think I'll just go and end it all now, - hate to be an inconvenience to the government's future plans.
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I have been waiting since February to start a treatment additive. It`s not an expensive drug and considered old fashioned treatment as I cannot go onto any advanced treatments. For the 4th time I have had the appointment cancelled. This is because the one person in the whole of the NHS who can prescribe - a nurse is off sick. Be aware. We are not being looked after , NHS That`s National - (not regional or area)  safe in Governments hands ?
Ron Spicer
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
JOHN . A.V. wrote:
I have been waiting since February to start a treatment additive. It`s not an expensive drug and considered old fashioned treatment as I cannot go onto any advanced treatments. For the 4th time I have had the appointment cancelled. This is because the one person in the whole of the NHS who can prescribe - a nurse is off sick. Be aware. We are not being looked after , NHS That`s National - (not regional or area)  safe in Governments hands ?
 
Judging from the national press, the present situation is far from what it  has been in the past and the probable answer by this present blue led government will most likely be a far larger dose of privatisation "due to the most serious unavoidable circumstances" etc.
 
Good-bye railways, mines, cleansing, shipbuilding and all those other things I must've left out, coming finally to the NHS?   Privatisation; the key to foreign ownership of the country!
 
infocus2
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Hmmm. We've had a few more shambolic NHS incidents in our family since I first posted a comment in this thread at the end of March. Mercifully, they've all been down to the bureaucracy being shambolic - not medical issues or complaints with those on the front line - but when your GP, no less, says that "dealing within the NHS is like being in treacle these days", you really have to think......
 
And now we get - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22968167 - when BBC headlines use language like the "rotten side of the NHS", it can't be brushed under the carpet any more.
 
Quote:
The findings laid bare by consultants Grant Thornton on Wednesday confirms something that is becoming clearer and clearer as the months go by: that in the early part of the 21st century a rotten culture developed in the NHS in England that put self-interest ahead of patients.
In short, the NHS stopped caring.
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
I think I can understand why not only the NHS but institutions overall are not being able to do what they are supposed to be doing. In the first instance a culture of too much subordinate accountability has developed. the buck stops at the least able to defend. Those at the top shift blame of their policies onto those down below. Teachers for instance find themselves in a system where policies are changing periodically so what was right, is now wrong, and so have to alter their thinking. Once you have learned how to do it , it really is difficult to unlearn it and do it in such a way that is not in your thought process. In the 2nd instance , Medical science is evolving to the point of keeping a corpse alive. There is a natural law and none of us should ever go up against that. When your time comes , accept it . You are not a God. Realise and understand the order that exists now, is to steam in make a pile , bu.... up so many lives, and steam back out again leaving the blame with some poor underling. BUT , one day , the person who is responsible gets revealed such is Karma. Pity it takes such a long time.
JOHN . A.V.
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Re: Looking after the Baby Boomers
Coming soon to a surgery near you perhaps. As GP`s take control of budgets in a market forces way , and if you happen to be on regular meds for any condition that requires it . The department who oversees your treatment will be the ones to prescribe. So you may take regular trips to the hospital to collect every 28 days. It will cost the GP money to do your repeat and some GP`s will forget why they became a Doctor and be a business instead. I have just read a post on another forum about a practice on the Isle of Man refusing to issue scripts and referring patients to the hospital department who advised the meds to be taken. I hope that this does not get rolled out nationally. As previously said - we , the baby boomers are now along with the immigrants & now the teachers are the ones to blame.