The Panasonic TM 900 club

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col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Well I have just got one of these amazing camcorders and first results are very impressive.

Straight out of the box, recording the same scene, same distance, same light levels, shot with: -
[INDENT]TM 900 in 1080p
TM 900 HA AVCHD
Sony TG3 highest data rate
Panaconic AG HMC 151 highest data rate 1080i, set up as per Nigel Coopers DV User website
Canon 7D manual f8 50 iso200 with colour and contrast settings as per Philip Bloom's website [/INDENT]
All placed on Edius 6.2 timeline and all playback without any issue.

[INDENT]TM 900 great in either mode no progressive stutter when panning, sound quality OK but needs external good quality mike

TG 3 just as good but there again light levels were dull but OK (from using it for two years it is a different matter in low light), sound with built in mike better than TM 900

151 great clarity but slightly muted colours, best sound quality with built in mike

7D great on static shot, slight progressive stutter obvious on panning, colour reproduction the best, OK sound and better than TM 900 even with its own built in mike.[/INDENT]
So very impressed visually with the TM 900 but not so much with the audio

Those of you guys that have been using one for a while can you advise me and others here what are the best settings to use?

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

Hi Col, lot's of folk who get this camera are amazed when they see the leap in quality over what went before. I knew it was good before I bought it as I had downloaded lots of movies made with the previous model, the TM700 but I was still bowled over when I actually saw the super definition and smooth completely stutter free progressive 50P. To this day I cannot put it down for long and am soon about to sell my EX1R, no kidding!

As you found out, for any serious work it demands a decent external mic, wind noise is picked up only to easily. My first adventure with mics was to fit a Rode Video Mic Pro with a Rycote Mini Windjammer. The sound was nice but wind still spoiled it when it got in the unprotected back of the mic, plus I wanted stereo for ambient sound so I set about using my Edirol C50 shotgun mic. This is a bit big really for such a tiny camera but I don't care, the picture quality is so good it demands the best audio as well, so I put the camera on a Hague camera support with the C50 mic and a JuicedLink adaptor (preamp and phantom power). I can either hand hold this or pop it all on my tripod. Works out great, with a Rode WS6 windshield on the C50 it's good to go in all but a gale. This is all probably OVERKILL in a lot of people eyes but I think it's worth it and I can still remove the little cam in seconds, pop it in my pocket and film discretly.

The only real dissapointment I have with it is the video dynamic range, with no gamma or profiles to adjust it is inclined to quickly burn out hot spots, loss of detail in anything on the very bright side whereas the EX1 would take this in it's stride, so I am extra careful to avoid anything too bright and make full use of the histogram and zebras. If they brought out a pro version with gamma adjust I'd have in an eyeblink.

I only ever shoot in full 1080/50P manual mode and always using manual WB, this mode does have an auto iris option, I use this when running and gunning.

The picture settings I use are as follows,

Sharpness: -2
Colour: -3
Exposure: -2
White Bal: 0

These were set up viewing on a new Panasonic TX-L32D25 LED HDTV with it's sharpness turned completely off (not needed).

Claire

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999
jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005

I have the tm700 & its my camera of choice now for all the outside footage at weddings. I tell couples its my "stealth" camera & not to be put off by its amateur appearance as the results are stunning. Get some great shots up high on the end of a monopod, stabiliser is great for this job

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

I'd love someone to shoot an indoor scene with an EX1/3 and a TM900 - just very curious about the difference in look and sensitivity / noise etc: in a real, live situation.

I sometimes have to use a Z1 with EX cams - the difference is very very noticable - obviously, but I looked at Claires exterior shots which were stunning indeed, just wonder how this little thing fairs indoors.

Paul :-)

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005

Very good indoors. I filmed my nieces disco footage with it & results were very good, just make sure you use manual focus though

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

I just did an edit and sound dub on a charity video that was shot on a panasonic HD handycam and the pictures look superb (albeit wobbly cam) all the sound was recorded on the in-built camera mic, I am not sure which model it was but it had a hard drive on board and shot full 1920x1080i 50i :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDZ68Qtec_8

I loaded the AVCHD content in as pro res LT as I do with my canon HF11 and it all went together very well.

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Thanks Claire for the info, I'll adjust the settings to replicate yours.

Shot a movie at the Weekend of a Classic Car and Bike show and edited Monday evening.

Shot in AVCHD rather than 1080p just to see what the results would be like and the results more then exceed my expectations, I am even happier with the sound but it did get a little wind noise after we had been at the show for and hour went the wind speed increased, the earlier shot footage sound was OK for including in the timeline.

Next movie will be shot in 1080p and I'll post the results of that later.

One very happy punter here!

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Mick Mearman
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Joined: Sep 12 2004
paultv wrote:
I'd love someone to shoot an indoor scene with an EX1/3 and a TM900 - just very curious about the difference in look and sensitivity / noise etc: in a real, live situation.

I sometimes have to use a Z1 with EX cams - the difference is very very noticable - obviously, but I looked at Claires exterior shots which were stunning indeed, just wonder how this little thing fairs indoors.

Paul :-)

I did just that a week ago, at a reception in a restaurant, the cameras were an EX1R and a SD700 which I believe has the same front end as the TM900.
The venue was, as most of these are, very dimly lit - daylight streaming in through large windows and discreet over head lighting, white balance was very difficult with groups being lit on one side by daylight and the other artificial.
The results were, the EX1 wiped the floor with the SD700, the footage from the EX1 was amazing without any gain, it looked like there was a lot more light than there was, as soon as you get the SD700 indoors the aperture is open and you're in a gain situation, which is what you would expect with small chips.
I'm not speaking from any bias I've had wonderful footage from the SD700 outside and in well lit buildings, they are just not as sensitive as the EX1 they can't be, the single chip SD10 I had before was much worse and unusable indoors but was excellent outside, also an increase in detail to around +10 on an EX1 will give you an equivalent sharpness (why do others turn down detail on EX1 then rave about the sharpness on the Panasonics?)
Mick

3.00 gigahertz Intel Pentium III, 3.5GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4350, Avid Liquid, Edius 6.03, Sony EX1R & EX1, Panasonic SD700

doolahroak
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Joined: Apr 2 2005

I'm I right in thinking the only difference between the TM900 and the SD900 is that the TM has built in internal memory?

Paul Jordan
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Joined: Apr 22 1999

Yes doolahroak, that is the only difference. I am thinking of getting the SD900 very soon after reading such good reviews.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

I'm not sure how Panasonic came to price-differentiate the TM and SD versions. The only difference is 32gigs, which means £32s worth of SDHC card, but Panasonic charge you £134 (Amazon prices).

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Tom

£100 difference from where I got my TM900 between it and the SD model and yes, you could get quite a few SD cards for the increased cost of the TM.

I am not even sure why I went for the TM model myself, but it means I stick a 32Gb card into it and if that gets full there is always the inbuilt to fall back upon

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

I got the canon HF11 with the on board memory but never seem to use it as it's easier to shoot to cards and then offload from them rather than hook up the camera.

I would say the same goes for the panasonic and using cards to manage jobs is so cost effective these days as they cost very little.

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Claire
Made the adjustments you suggested and.................wow

A great little camcorder is even better

Less saturation and cleaner edges to objects, more of a match to the settings on my 151

Many thanks

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Paul Jordan
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Joined: Apr 22 1999

Just received my SD900 today and battery is now charging. Camera is small! I did not realise how small compared to my Sony A1E which is now sold and gone.

Reading manual so will try out camera later with some of the suggested settings.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Has anyone found an after-market battery supplier? Panasonic's little block costs a whopping £92, which would make a Toyota Prius cost £159,000.

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000

I have one back ordered at 7Dayshop. It's only £10 but I've been waiting for several weeks. Their stuff is usually reliable.

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001
col lamb wrote:
Claire
Made the adjustments you suggested and.................wow

A great little camcorder is even better

Less saturation and cleaner edges to objects, more of a match to the settings on my 151

Many thanks

Hey Col, pleased it helped... just take great care to keep an eye on those highlights, this camera has no picture profiles or gamma adjustments and it's dynamic range could do with improving, but the zebras and histogram work well.

Claire

Paul Jordan
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Joined: Apr 22 1999

What camera bag/case are you using for the camcorder (SD/TM900). I am undecided on either a soft bag like the Portabrace range or a hard Peli Case.

Any recommendations?

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000

Given there's around £100 saving to be made with the SD model inc 32 GB card, over the TM model with it on-board, are there any good reasons to spend that much extra on the TM? I'd guess on-board memory might be more reliable, might be faster and, of course, simply cannot get lost! But I'd be interested in other users' points of view on this.

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000

I cannot see much advantage to having on-board memory and it does have some downsides. It can only be downloaded using the camera (or, perhaps, copying across to a card in the camera), if it becomes faulty it's difficult/expensive to replace. Cards, on the other hand, are replaceable, upgradeable and can be downloaded using a reader. What's more they are inexpensive and getting cheaper all the time.
Amazon have 16GB class 10 for £14.99 post paid.

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000

Good points!
That's exactly where I was looking and am on the verge of ordering SD900, putting the £130 saving plus £50 voucher towards SD cards and batteries. The list price of batteries is disgraceful - might be wiser to wait and see if clones are any good?

Ron Spicer
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Joined: Jul 22 2001

I've recently had just a temporary small handling of the SD 900 and during use experienced a caution that the camera was susceptible to vibration/rough handling. I wasn't too sure how robust it is. Maybe an owner can provide the details on that?

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

Ron, was this not the message "CAMERA PANNING IS TOO FAST" you can get if moved too quickly?

Claire

Claire
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g3vbl wrote:
I cannot see much advantage to having on-board memory and it does have some downsides. It can only be downloaded using the camera (or, perhaps, copying across to a card in the camera), if it becomes faulty it's difficult/expensive to replace. Cards, on the other hand, are replaceable, upgradeable and can be downloaded using a reader. What's more they are inexpensive and getting cheaper all the time.
Amazon have 16GB class 10 for £14.99 post paid.

If you don't use the included HD Writer software to do the copy you won't get helpful filenames that include date and time. Instead of

''30-04-2011_110808.m2ts"

you end up with useless names like

0001.mt
0002.mt
0003.mt
etc.

Another thing not yet mentioned is that with the TM900's twin memory it can seamlessly switch over when the first memory is full, also you can copy from one card to another in camera, so could make a backup or one to give to someone else without the need for a computer.

Claire

H and M Video
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Joined: Jun 5 1999
Tropi wrote:
Good points!
That's exactly where I was looking and am on the verge of ordering SD900, putting the £130 saving plus £50 voucher towards SD cards and batteries. The list price of batteries is disgraceful - might be wiser to wait and see if clones are any good?

I have the Panasonic HDC- HS300 and have purchased two batteries from here

http://www.batteryupgrade.co.uk/shopBrowser.php?assortmentProductId=76952419&shopGroupId=14806848&tracker=googleProducts_uk#/assortmentProductId/76952419/shopGroupId/14806848

So far been very good but unlike the originals they don't show any details of how much charge is left etc. Supplied with a charger and can't use Panasonic's own one. Also have to wait for a couple of weeks delivery as they come from Hong Kong.

Harry

PC Specialist 3Gz Dual Core, Premiere CS3, Encore CS3, After Effects CS3, Matrox RT.X2, Panasonic HD HS-300, Z1E & PMW-EX3 Cams.
 
Now with a PC Specialist Quad Core i7-3770, 16GB RAM, 180GB SSD, GeForce GTX560 Ti Graphics Card, Blu-Ray & DVD R/W Burners and can't wait to set it up. Now up and running.  What a difference in Blu-Ray footage.

Paul Jordan
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Joined: Apr 22 1999

What camera bag/case are you using for the camcorder (SD/TM900). I am undecided on either a soft bag like the Portabrace range or a hard Peli Case.

Any recommendations?

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

Paul, I don't have any special bag for mine, it's either with a lot more equipment if doing serious shooting, or a non descript bag if in "stealth mode".

ie: nothing that says "camera inside", if you get the drift ;) Like James Bond tee hee!

Claire

Ron Spicer
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Joined: Jul 22 2001
Claire wrote:
Ron, was this not the message "CAMERA PANNING IS TOO FAST" you can get if moved too quickly?

Definitely not that, Claire. Wish I'd taken more notice to remember the exact wording but I'm sure it referred to delicacy.

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000
Clone Batteries
H & M Video wrote:
Supplied with a charger and can't use Panasonic's own one.
Harry

Thanks for that info, Harry. I'm not quite clear on the point quoted though.

I know the Panasonic charger supplied with the camcorder can only charge the battery in the camera and not out of it (Very, VERY silly arrangement!)
But I'm not sure if you are saying the Pana charger can't charge your new batteries, either in or out of the camera. Could you clarify, please?

PaulD
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Joined: Aug 31 2002

Hi
Panasonic camcorders use chipped batteries, so some of the the older/cheaper Chinese batteries will be rejected by the camera or its charger.
Some can power the camcorders OK, but with no battery-state indication. Some of these need their own charger as the Panasonic one rejects them.
More recent Chinese batteries for older 750/700/600 models now come fitted with cloned chips so they work properly.

For current Panasonic models including the 900/800 range there are so far haven't been any cheap batteries available, as Panasonic have altered the chip specification - so only original Panasonic batteries can be used.

No doubt cheap Chinese copies will arrive sooner or later...

Check the DVDoctor Classified forum where I have details of an eBay sale of a 3D lens attachment for a HDC-SD900 or similar ;)
http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53580http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53580

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

I have two as Claire's post I am always in stealth mode.

One is a small Eagle Creek (you get these in Outdoor Shops) and a larger one made by Pacsafe which is reinforced with anti slash cables.

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

H and M Video
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Joined: Jun 5 1999
Tropi wrote:
Thanks for that info, Harry. I'm not quite clear on the point quoted though.

I know the Panasonic charger supplied with the camcorder can only charge the battery in the camera and not out of it (Very, VERY silly arrangement!)
But I'm not sure if you are saying the Pana charger can't charge your new batteries, either in or out of the camera. Could you clarify, please?

Hi Tropi

My HS-300 cannot charge the battery in the camera, the opposite of yours:confused: The new batteries have their own charger and cannot be used to charge a Panasonic battery. This means that if I am out and about I have to carry two different chargers. I have learned that Panasonic cams are made to reject non-Panasonic batteries. My cam accepts these batteries but I refuse to upgrade the firmware as it could then render my batteries useless. I also don't upgrade my Canon MX850 or Dell Laser printers for the same reason as I use compatible cartridges.

Harry

PC Specialist 3Gz Dual Core, Premiere CS3, Encore CS3, After Effects CS3, Matrox RT.X2, Panasonic HD HS-300, Z1E & PMW-EX3 Cams.
 
Now with a PC Specialist Quad Core i7-3770, 16GB RAM, 180GB SSD, GeForce GTX560 Ti Graphics Card, Blu-Ray & DVD R/W Burners and can't wait to set it up. Now up and running.  What a difference in Blu-Ray footage.

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000
What a Rip-Off!

Thanks for the clarifications, Harry and Paul.

I'm still doing my homework on whether to buy a 900 and am now rendered almost speechless at Panasonic's manipulative avarice.
The supplied charger won't charge off-camera, it sounds as though it might not charge any other battery on-camera and Pana's own batteries are about four times the price they should be. Rumour has it they might introduce an off-camera charger at £120 or so! But it likely won't charge any other battery either! I do have an adequate vocabulary to express my thoughts, but it probably isn't suitable for public posting !!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying very hard to be more constructive, (and it really is an effort!) There used to be available 'battery belts' stuffed with el-cheapo batteries, with a lead and jack to emulate a mains powered supply to a camera. I wonder if such things still exist and would be workable?

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

My canon HF11 also charges on the camera but I can use cheaper third party hi capacity batteries but you have to make sure they are fully compatible and display the charge time in the LCD screen, you can also get third party chargers for the HF11 and no doubt the same may be available for the panasonics.

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000

My wife's mother and brother are visiting us from USA in 3 weeks. So I had a quick look around the web to see what we might get them to bring with them.

B & H are advertising the Panasonic stand-alone charger at $59.95 - not QUITE as bad as I had thought, but bad enough. Not in stock at present, though.

Then I found this, at $14.95 http://www.snapitdigital.com/itemdetail.asp?mod=CVWVBN130
Also not in stock at the moment.
$69.95 gets you the charger AND a battery from SnapDigital.

Oooh, I am cross with Panasonic - I need to pour a bucket of cold water over myself!

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000
Claire wrote:
If you don't use the included HD Writer software to do the copy you won't get helpful filenames that include date and time. Instead of

''30-04-2011_110808.m2ts"

you end up with useless names like

0001.mt
0002.mt
0003.mt
etc.

Another thing not yet mentioned is that with the TM900's twin memory it can seamlessly switch over when the first memory is full, also you can copy from one card to another in camera, so could make a backup or one to give to someone else without the need for a computer.

Claire, thank you for another useful piece of info.
But could I check with you please? Are you saying that you can't use the included transfer software unless it is the TM model? I'm really trying very hard to avoid any nasty surprises if I go ahead with this!

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001
Tropi wrote:
Claire, thank you for another useful piece of info.
But could I check with you please? Are you saying that you can't use the included transfer software unless it is the TM model? I'm really trying very hard to avoid any nasty surprises if I go ahead with this!

No, just mentioning what you lose if you don't use the proper file transfer program provided with the camera. Also, files copied without it that exceed a certain file format limit (is it 4GB?) might not join up in the NLE without a distinct gap or jump.

Claire

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003
Tropi wrote:
My wife's mother and brother are visiting us from USA in 3 weeks. So I had a quick look around the web to see what we might get them to bring with them.

If they are being so strict with what you can and can't use, I would be very careful to check the spec that any charger bought in the USA will work on European mains supplies (230volts and 50Hz instead of 110/60).

I'd expect they would - otherwise it would be inconvienient to say the least for Americans travelling with their cameras - but it's worth checking......

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005
Claire...

Claire, I have just ransferred ceremony to PC using both supplied software and general drag/drop off the card methods but still get glitch where the 4gb file limit was reached, any ideas

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

John, sorry for late reply, always used HD Writer here and yet too experience a glitch.

What time into the clip does it occur? I think the camera records in VBR mode so not sure where 4GB would take you to.

Claire

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

OK guys, here's a test for you all to do. I have been using a TM700, delightful camera that it is. If I film an electric motor or something emitting a continuous , uninterrupted sound and start and stop, or rec and pause, the replay of the AVCHD files shows 'sound gaps' at the start of every new scene. Sound just like split-second dropouts.

This surprised me, so I did the same test using my Sony NX5 and all was well - the audio continued uninterrupted across all the joins. Using the 700's remote gives the same results - sound gaps.

Question - have any of you experienced these sound gaps on your 700s or 900s? Am I looking at a faulty 700 here that should be repaired while it's still under guarantee?

tom.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Hi Tom, yes I see the sound gaps in the joints of my TM900.
Just had a look at one there and theres about 7 frames without sound.
It looks as if it happens at the end of the clip.

Doesn't bother me because I'm just using the clips for cutaways.

I must do a test of starting and stopping the camera to see if it happens there as well.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

No problem here, all frames present and correct.

EDIT: what do you term a "scene"? I am supposing a stop start?

Claire

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Stop / start or rec / pause /rec - all the 'joins' leave mute frames.

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

yes as I thought but I don't have any missing here, Tom if you zoom right up on the timeline and click the little triangle at left to drop down the audio waveform view do you see the gap? I think this is what Tony has probably done.

Also, what mode, 50P/50i?

Claire

Bob Aldis
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Joined: Mar 7 2001
tom hardwick wrote:
Has anyone found an after-market battery supplier? Panasonic's little block costs a whopping £92, which would make a Toyota Prius cost £159,000.

I am contemplating a SD800/900 at the moment and the battery prices are a bit off putting. Amazon have the 1250 for about £60 so that is a little better.

Am I right in assuming that the whole range have the 1250 supplied? Amazon have the 2600 for £89.

What is the battery life like as I suppose one could soldier through with the supplied one, although I never have yet.

Bob Aldis

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
Claire wrote:
...zoom right up on the timeline and click the little triangle at left to drop down the audio waveform view do you see the gap? I think this is what Tony has probably done.

Also, what mode, 50P/50i?

Yes, thats right Claire, 50p mode, (well, as far as I know I didn't change anything regarding that, didn't know I could go 50i)

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
Bob Aldis wrote:
What is the battery life like as I suppose one could soldier through with the supplied one, although I never have yet.

Could be wrong, but I think the supplied one would last over the hour.

I was lucky that I was eligible to claim for the free battery offer.
The two batteries would last me all day, recording the bits I need.

I was thinking of getting a longer lasting one as well.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
Tony7 wrote:
I must do a test of starting and stopping the camera to see if it happens there as well.

No, doesn't seem to have sound gaps when start/stop recording.
Just when the camera decides to make a break in the recording itself.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Bob Aldis
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Joined: Mar 7 2001
Tony7 wrote:
I was thinking of getting a longer lasting one as well.

When I have done this in the past it has always unbalanced the camera but it it is tempting

Bob Aldis

colinb
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Joined: Dec 1 2001
Quote:
Just when the camera decides to make a break in the recording itself.

If you mean the FAT32 file-size break, then there should actually be no missing audio. The file break can occur at any packet, even in mid-frame. If the files are joined back together before being used then there will be no "missing" data. But if you import each file in a file-break series separately they are treated as independent files so it looks like there IS missing data.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
colinb wrote:
But if you import each file in a file-break series separately they are treated as independent files so it looks like there IS missing data.

I see colinb, that could be where I'm going wrong.

Thanks.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

LesWinn
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Joined: Sep 3 2002

Batteries for TM700:

Suggest digitalmediastore.

Product 2290 Compatible battery: Pan. VW-VBG260 (D) £24-99 (Cheaper now)

Also offer the other two batteries. Full details on their web pages. Lightening delivery.

Did get camcorder notice (once only) 'not a Panasonic battery'.

Switched camcorder off - then on - no messages since.

No charger problems..

Les

johnd
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Joined: Mar 8 2009
colinb wrote:
If you mean the FAT32 file-size break, then there should actually be no missing audio. The file break can occur at any packet, even in mid-frame. If the files are joined back together before being used then there will be no "missing" data. But if you import each file in a file-break series separately they are treated as independent files so it looks like there IS missing data.

How do you join the files back together to avoid lost data?

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005
Vw-vbg260

VW-VBG260 Battery £14.99 ebay, no issues at all. Seller from Exeter. Regarding file break glitches at 4gb limit, I reimported using the Panasonic software & its still there, thank goodness it wasnt during the vows

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000
"Compatible" batteries/chargers 900 series

VW-VBN130 1250mAh
VW-VBN260 2500mAh
Not yet in stock, but here's another reference for batteries and charger for the 900 series.

http://www.digi-quick.co.uk/Panasonic-VW-VBN130-battery__1167

I have Emailed them for an estimated availability date and details - will post again if/when they respond.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
jgould wrote:
VW-VBG260 Battery £14.99 ebay,
Tropi wrote:
VW-VBN260 2500mAh

One is a VW-VBG260 and the other is a VW-VBN260.

Is there a difference?

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Tropi
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Joined: Dec 1 2000

Yes, far as I can tell, they are (slightly) different and it is annoying to say the very least!

700 series uses VBG numbered batteries which are not the same as
800/900 series that require VBN numbered batteries.

If I have this wrong, please, anyone correct me - I would HATE to be spreading misinformation when trying very hard to help myself and others to not order the wrong batteries.

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000
Tropi wrote:

700 series uses VBG numbered batteries which are not the same as
800/900 series that require VBN numbered batteries.

If I have this wrong, please, anyone correct me - I would HATE to be spreading misinformation when trying very hard to help myself and others to not order the wrong batteries.

This is exactly the conclusion to which I, too, have come. It is associated with the 'off camera' charging of the 700-series as opposed to the 'on-camera' charging of the 800/900 series.

I have a VBG130 replacement on order from China for £11 inclusive. It is claimed to be fully compatible and I have no reason to believe the claim is false.

No doubt replacements for the 800/900 series will be available in due course. The prices Panasonic, Canon, and others charge for their batteries are ridiculous and, quite frankly, a rip-off.

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000
Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

You can get an original VW-VBN260E-K longer lasting battery here for the TM900, but its £89.

http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-panasonic-vw-vbn260e-k-rechargeable-battery.htm

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Claire
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CONFIRMED - 7 blank frames of audio at 4GB point

I think I the reason I am not experiencing these sound drop outs that Tom and Tony encounter is simply because I don't do weddings, events or conferences so have never needed to record long enough at any one time to cause multiple 4GB files. So this morning I left my TM900 recording in front of a noise source for an hour and got three 3.9GB files. I imported them with HD Writer and in Edius each one has the 7 last frames devoid of audio, just as Tony described.

Not sure if I would ever have noticed this if it hadn't been brought to my attention and of course it doesn't bother me in my work but I can certainly see how it could if one was recording wedding vows :eek:

interesting...

Just to add, I don't get this with smaller files, no matter how often I press stop/start

Claire

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

I don't think it's the 'wedding vows' market that should be worrying Claire. This dinky little camcorder is sold to people who appreciate quality but don't necessarily want to top and tail every single clip before they replay their footage.

I've just watched a cruise-ship film shot with the 700 camera, and I'd imagine this customer is pretty typical of Panasonic's mass-market. The Panny was plugged into my 46" TV and the images looked wonderful. What wasn't so wonderful was the sound-gap between all the takes, such that the ocean-going liner's engines stopped for 7 frames whenever the pause button was hit. Not too clever, Panasonic.

I wonder why this happens? Is it a 'feature' to cut out the recording of the noises of the camera switches being pushed?

tom.

Claire
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tom hardwick wrote:
don't necessarily want to top and tail every single clip
tom.

Tom, I only see missing audio at the end of a 4GB segment which is around the 22 minute mark. I doubt many typical purchasers would record a single take for that long before pressing pause. If your "takes" are less than 4GB and still see missing audio I would suggest you have a right to be VERY concerned.

Claire

tom hardwick
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Here's an easy test for all you 700/900 owners to do. Like the doctor said, take a dep breath and go Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

During this 30 seconds of Arrrrrrr-ing, rec / pause / rec / pause / rec pause your camcorder. My NX5 has one long uninterrupted audio Ahhhhhh, but the 700 I tested went Ahhhhh hhhhhhh hhhhhh.

tom.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001
Claire wrote:
Tom, I only see missing audio at the end of a 4GB segment which is around the 22 minute mark..

Its the same for me, just the last 7 frames have missing audio but the normal start/stop recording hasn't. The audio goes right to the end of the clip.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Claire
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Tom, this is different to what I see at the end of a 4GB clip, the short audio gap I hear is the very last last frame before pressing pause, not 7 blank frames, in fact it's not even a full 50P frame, it's the last half of it that is empty.

I have to admit if I did not edit my films I don't think it would bother me as I am rarely if ever on a cruise ship. I have filmed many landings on hairy runways (example Funchal) where the scream of the reverse thrust adds to the excitement, maybe that would bother me there again I could always resort to the simple trimming available in HD Writer if I was desperate :)

Otherwise, if one presses pause then starts recording again the background noise has usually changed anyway so one might not notice the tiny gap?

Claire

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000

As Tom requested. SDT750 using 1080/50p. Dropped onto Vegas Pro 10 timeline.

Audio continues to the end but when going back to record there appears to be a very slight gap on startup. Zoomed the timeline and this gap, or perhaps better described as a displacement/offset, is less than half a frame.

That's a very amateur interpretation of what I see so apologies if it's oncorrect.

colinb
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Quote:
How do you join the files back together to avoid lost data?

Most Sony camcorders seem to be supplied with Sony Picture Motion Browser (or similar) which identifies the files series, and on copying them to the PC joins them back together. So you have the complete larger-than-4GB files on your PC.

Other makes may come supplied with similar software. Is the TM900 supplied with software that can do this?

Also I think that some video editing packages do the joining if you import the whole camera folder structure instead of the individual MTS files.

This used to be a frequent complaint on various video forums. I had considered writing a program to do this automatically, checking for file series and re-joining them, but I had thought that most cameras now come with software to do this already.

You can also join the files manually, provided you definitely know the files were split by the camera in this way AND know the order of the splitting - but it's a bit laborious. The DOS "copy" command can do this, or in Mac-land the "cat" command.

If you attempt to join files which were NOT splt by the camera you may get strange results partly due to the internal clock values jumping.

Bear in mind that when the camera does a split, it happens on a packet boundary so it may occur in the middle of a video or audio frame. So the first file looked at in isolation may LOOK like it has missing video and/or audio data at the end of file; and the second file may look like it has a lot of missing data at the start of the file - e.g doesn't start on a GOP boundary. So if you import these as separate independent files they will both look as if they have missing data - but if they are simply joined together before importing then it's clear that all the data is really there (or should be!).

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Wait - wait - I think we may have an answer here. Interesting that it may well be just the 700 camcorder that can't 'access' the audio quick enough to start replaying it when the pictures are output, giving me the audio dropout

jgould
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Tom, the wedding vows are a problem, its not just the 700/900 etc. I recorded the ceremony on HMC151, the problem is sd card cameras in general

colinb
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Tom, are you able to provide a small example file where there is audio missing at the start as the result of starting a recording or UN-pausing (but not as a result of the camera splitting files itself) ?

I'd be happy to take a look at the structure at the start of the file to see if there is some explanation for this.

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001
colinb wrote:
Most Sony camcorders seem to be supplied with Sony Picture Motion Browser (or similar) which identifies the files series, and on copying them to the PC joins them back together. So you have the complete larger-than-4GB files on your PC.

Other makes may come supplied with similar software. Is the TM900 supplied with software that can do this?

SNIP

Just to confirm... the supplied software with the TM900 (HD Writer) does the stitching of spanned clips automatically, it also changes the useless filenames to meaningful ones that include the date and time.

Claire

Bob Aldis
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So the supplied software (HD Writer) is able to do quick basic editing which is presumably quicker and/or easier to use than the illustrious software used by members of this forum? :)

BTW my present HDV setup uses less space for storing 1080i footage than my old DV, how does 1080p compare?

Bob Aldis

Claire
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Bob, I have no idea what the included HD Writer software is like for editing purposes, all I use it for is it's "Copy to PC" feature. Somehow I doubt it will be as you put it "quicker and/or easier to use than the illustrious software used by members of this forum" ;)

Not at my editing machine at the moment so can't check file size against duration but I seem to recall DV was constant bitrate, about 2GB for 10 minutes?

Claire

Bob Aldis
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Thanks Claire, won't be dumping Vegas then. :)
Looking around it looks like the latest 1080p encoding is much more efficient than HDV so it looks as though it will be at least as efficient with space but will still use more than 1080i with the same encoding.

Bob Aldis

g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000

The Panasonics record 1080 50p at 28Mbps VBR. Otherwise recording is available at 5/9/13/17 Mbps VBR.

1080 50p translates to 5mins/GB and the others, pro rata.

FAT32 places a limit on file sizes but a 16GB card gives about 80 minutes of 50p.

Bob Aldis
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I have an i7 quad 2.8ghz 64bit Dell with 4gb so in theory should be alright with 1080p but I wonder if I could download a clip of the type that a 800/900 would produce to try out. Any pointers.

Bob Aldis

colinb
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Joined: Dec 1 2001

I have a few short 50p and 60p clips here from a TM700 if that would help.

Incidentally, I checked a couple of them and there didn't seem to be any missing audio at the start. The clock values all looked OK and started the same for video and audio.

Bob Aldis
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I was thinking about a place to download?

Bob Aldis

g3vbl
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It took a while but I knew they were somewhere as I had downloaded them myself before purchasing a camera.

http://hdcam.web-pda.info/

Some are 60p, but they are downloadable.

colinb
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Joined: Dec 1 2001

Thanks, I was just about to do an upload but you've saved me the effort. Plenty of files there to look at.

Bob Aldis
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Right. Thanks both. I will have a little play later.:)

Bob Aldis

Bob Aldis
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Seems alright as long as I use clips that are clearly 50p. If I do anything too complicated with mixed 50p and 60p then a bit flaky.

Vegas Studio 11 question. What is the best input and output to hard drive that I should use?
Input only gives a choice of 50i or 24p so I assume 24p? Output to Hard drive gives a lot more choice with "Blu-ray 1920x1080-24p 25Mbps video stream" indicated as the match project setting.

I know it is a Vegas question and I should probably start a new thread but I'm feeling lucky ;)

Bob Aldis

g3vbl
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For input may I suggest 'Match Media Settings' and then point it at your 1080-50p files?

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Time for an update after starting this thread.

First a recap, the initial Movie I made which was shot on my TM900 in 1080i mode was completed shortly after I got the camcorder and I was more than happy with the results.

The settings were then changed as per Claire's advice (thanks again) and off we went to the wilds of Wakefiled for a walk around the Yorkshire Sculpture Park armed with my monopod and the TM900 set in 1080p mode.

Edited the footage into a movie the next day, made MP4 and MP2 files and played them back on the HD TV.

Then played the first 1080i shot movie, then went back and played the 1080p (they are now both on my WD TV Hub).

1080p has the edge, thoroughly delighted with the results and it sure knocks the spots off the 1080p footage shot on my Canon 7D.

One very happy punter here.

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

col lamb
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Well I have been on another shoot with the 900, this time at the Rally held on a RAF airfield on the coast of the Irish Sea north of Liverpool.

Airfield = open and exposed = wind noise, so I fitted the Rode Videomike Pro with its newly aquired windgag and went off to shoot, now for most of the time all was OK but for about 6 shoots the windgag material was blown down so that the odd strand or two became visible on the screen. I could not see this happening in the viewfinder but found it had happened last night when I loaded the files into the PC.

So either it needs a slight haircut or I find an extension that raises the mike up on its mount by about 25mm.

I did a test before I went to see if this would be a problem but all seemed OK but I was wrong. So if you are thinking about the combo for yours then plese take note.

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

col lamb
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Well I have been on another shoot with the 900, this time at the Rally held on a RAF airfield on the coast of the Irish Sea north of Liverpool.

Airfield = open and exposed = wind noise, so I fitted the Rode Videomike Pro with its newly aquired windgag and went off to shoot, now for most of the time all was OK but for about 6 shoots the windgag material was blown down so that the odd strand or two became visible on the screen. I could not see this happening in the viewfinder but found it had happened last night when I loaded the files into the PC.

So either it needs a slight haircut or I find an extension that raises the mike up on its mount by about 25mm.

I did a test before I went to see if this would be a problem but all seemed OK but I was wrong. So if you are thinking about the combo for yours then plese take note.

It will be interesting to see the results on the big screen of fast moving aircraft shot in 1080p, more on that later

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Claire
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Joined: Apr 28 2001

Hmm, yes I had the same problem, I sorted it by using the Rycote InVision shock-mount suspension system from my EX1R. The Rode dead cat hadn't arrived at the time but after hearing it wasn't very effective I bought a Rycote windshield.

Here's a picture of my set up as it was then, it still needs some more work, the wind can get in the back if it's very gusty.

Claire

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Col - I haven't had a chance to test the 900's v'finder and sidescreen yet, but I'm assuming there's no overscan built in? I think that went out with the PD170.

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Tom
I have not tested either the viewfinder of sidescreen

Claire
A comb and a sharp pair of scissors have trimmed off all the extra long hair that seeem to have been causing the problem.

Mind you I have just gently pulled at the material and I now have a desk full of hair so I suppose it will take some time to get all the loose stuff out.

I did give it a good comb when it came and again before I started the shoot, in a few weeks time I'll probably have the first bald windgag.

If it gets worst I'll dump it and make my own out of a Rycote material DIY kit that you can get from Keene Electronics, I did just this for the Sennheisser 66.

Talking of Keene, big praise, I ordered the mike last weekend and got an e-mail Monday saying that an item on my order was out of stock, I e-mailed them back Monday night saying I wanted the mike for a shoot at the weekend, they responded Tuesday by saying the mike was in the post, it arrived Wednesday, the remainder of the order arrived Friday.

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Chris B
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Joined: Apr 10 2001

It's been very interesting reading this topic ladies and gents, as a result I've just joined the SD900 club having been swept along by all the enthusiasm - needing a B roll camera to complement the 151. Claire, some very helpful info in your posts, thank you. I managed to get the SD900 for 629 from Prestons via amazon - I thought it was a bargain because the camera is £699 if you get it direct from Prestons. Anyway, having paid for express delivery they rang me a few days later to say they were out of stock (there must be a run on them or something) and they offered me a 16Gb card as compensation, I've got to say great customer service. Also found a place nearby that does the high capacity battery for £85 (I cant wait for the clones so have had to order one) I agree with Tropi's frustration on the battery/charger issue, I'm tempted to see if I can rig my 151 charger to charge the sd900 batteries.

Chris

Chris Boylan - boylanmedia.co.uk
---------------------------
HMC151 Windows 7 CS5 Production i7 950 3.07 GHz GTX570

Julian Barnes
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Joined: Jan 13 2002

Just so I dont feel left out I have ordered one as well , incidentally the Hahnel Unipal charger I bought the other day has charged all my other Lion/Rechargeable batteries no prob , will see what happens when the 900 battery arrives.

Julian

Bob Aldis
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Joined: Mar 7 2001

The Gadget show did their usual in depth and analytical review of the TM 900 and found it wanting. :)

Bob Aldis

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007
Bob Aldis wrote:
The Gadget show did their usual in depth and analytical review of the TM 900 and found it wanting. :)

No doubt they were comparing it to the RED in some stoopid shootout, I don't watch the show anymore as they have gone far too yoof TV and there are too many shouty presenters!

bah humbug!

PaulD
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Joined: Aug 31 2002
Bob Aldis wrote:
The Gadget show did their usual in depth and analytical review of the TM 900 and found it wanting. :)

Hi
This one?
http://fwd.channel5.com/gadgets/audio-video/cameras/camcorders/panasonic-hdc-sd900
They seemed to like it...
Quote:
"The biggest issue we had was that when recording in 1080p/50fps mode, the videos we captured were unusable on our Mac."
That's more a criticism of the computer software than the camcorder.

ChrisG
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Joined: Apr 10 1999

The Gadget show online review, although fairly light doesn't seem too bad ?

http://fwd.channel5.com/gadgets/audio-video/cameras/camcorders/panasonic-hdc-sd900

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Doesn't seem too bad? And they claim 'The HDC-SD900 also features a powerful LED video light'. It suggests they've not even picked the thing up.

They also say, 'At a shade under £1000, this camera is not to be purchased on a whim'. I bought one on a whim last month at less than £555, delivered, so they seem to have done little research.

Bob Aldis
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Joined: Mar 7 2001

I was joking. They only looked at 3D and compared it to two dedicated 3D cameras.
The program is a bit of froth and tests are usually decided by silly criteria.

I remember one time the iphone turned out best because in a race someone with another phone could not decide what to wear and got a time penalty :rolleyes:

Bob Aldis

ChrisG
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Joined: Apr 10 1999
Quote:
Doesn't seem too bad?

In that they didn't find any major faults, I gathered from the previous post that they had issues. As I don't yet ownbthe camera I couldn't comment on whether it has a flashlight or not.

I am currently changing my car and find that the specs in brochures/websites/salemen's memories bear little relation to reality. Therefore I wasn't going to comment on anything other than the Gadget show conclusion.

Bob Aldis
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I finally got to try out my SD800 and just got a mini HDMI to HDMI to try it direct to TV. Wow.

With my HV30 I thought that I had a good picture and upgraded for other reasons.

The question now is how does the picture compare with real life.

I think the only time real life can beat the camera is the optical stabilisation is better. :D

Bob Aldis

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

Re the Gadget Show

Let's remember the age range that the show has has its target audience, hence their very flimsy analysis and reporting of all their tests.

I packed up watching it after they were in the "lets blow it up / set fite to it / drop it off a cliff" phase

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

PP
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Joined: Jan 30 2004
col lamb wrote:
Re the Gadget Show

I packed up watching it after they were in the "lets blow it up / set fite to it / drop it off a cliff" phase

I'm in to flying RC helicopters and they made a real fiasco when they were showing them a couple of weeks ago, I'm sure they deliberately crashed them for effect !!

Peter

Peter

Bob Aldis
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Joined: Mar 7 2001

Amazing isn't it. We all know that it is rubbish and we all vow to stop watching it but how many can hold up their hands and say they never sneak a peak.:D

PVRs allow you to see the whole thing in about 10mins.

Gadget show and Click seem to be the only gadgety things on at the moment and the dumbing down seems to be inevitable nowadays.

Bob Aldis

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

So the 'TM1000' is here now
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/Camcorders/HD+Camcorders/HDC-Z10000/Specification/8055013/index.html?trackInfo=true&dm_i=QG8,J5E1,3LYQZ0,1K43L,1

Do we call it the Zed Ten Thousand? Is that because it's 10,000x better than a Z1?

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

Yet another camera that looks like a toy... and if it looks like a toy?

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007
Chrome wrote:
Yet another camera that looks like a toy... and if it looks like a toy?

But in the hands of a highly skilled operator (well journalist or production secretary with one day's training) it can make high quality ( in the mind of a noo mediah producer) crap for the masses!;)

3D is dead again anyway so they have missed the boat with that one!

Dave Jervis
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Joined: Feb 21 2006
tom hardwick wrote:
So the 'TM1000' is here now
.................

That's beginning to look a lot like my next camera... but I'll wait for the details (LANC? ...any improvement on contrast handling/curves?, ....decent lens hood in 2D mode? .....option to buy it "sans 3D"? ....has it still got a fan? ....price? ...etc. )

....and I am assuming that 3D glass is removable ! ...if not, forget what I just said !

I think it's still an SD700/900 at heart (...but then I like "noo toys" that work as well as those do... ;) )

dave

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005
Wide Angle Adapter Lens

Anyone using one of these on the 900, or can anyone recommend a good one that doesnt break the bank

steve
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Joined: Apr 8 1999
Dave Jervis wrote:
That's beginning to look a lot like my next camera... but I'll wait for the details (LANC? ...any improvement on contrast handling/curves?, ....decent lens hood in 2D mode? .....option to buy it "sans 3D"? ....has it still got a fan? ....price? ...etc. )

....and I am assuming that 3D glass is removable ! ...if not, forget what I just said !

I think it's still an SD700/900 at heart (...but then I like "noo toys" that work as well as those do... ;) )

dave

The spec. says:
"Image Sensor 1/4.1" MOS Sensor x 3 x 2"

Looks like it has two sets of 3 CMOS sensors so the now defunct 3D 'feature' is there as baggage for good.

There goes another best-forgotten fad.

Steve

Dave Jervis
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Joined: Feb 21 2006
steve wrote:
The spec. says:
"Image Sensor 1/4.1" MOS Sensor x 3 x 2"
.........................
Quote:
...from the spec...

SENSOR SECTION
Image Sensor 1/4.1" MOS Sensor x 3 x 2
Total Pixels 9.15 megapixels (3.05 megapixels x 3)

....not sure I entirely believe that " .....X 2 " Steve. The pictures look like a 900 that has been reworked to compete with the Canon XA10 and then given the bolt on 3D lens with the convergence control and the "World's 1st AVCHD 3D/Progressive Compatible " tag as a unique selling point.

I'd be very unhappy to find out you were right though.... a 900 with better manual controls and v/f sounds promising.....

dave

colin rowe
colin rowe's picture
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jgould wrote:
Anyone using one of these on the 900, or can anyone recommend a good one that doesnt break the bank

Raynox HD 6600, about £130

Colin Rowe

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

The 900 does cry out for a wide converter as stopping off at 35mm is a bit limiting. I've found Raynox lenses good and sometimes you can get the 'clip-on' single element variety in Jessops. If barrel distortion's not a worry, these are exceptional at about 20 quid.

Raynox have an excellent site where they show the before and after shots:

http://raynox.co.jp/english/video/egvideoindex.htm

tom.

jgould
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Looked everywhere for 46mm version of Raynox in UK but cant be found, looks like might have to order from across the water

Bob Aldis
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jgould wrote:
Looked everywhere for 46mm version of Raynox in UK but cant be found, looks like might have to order from across the water

Stepping rings?

I have been using my old Sigma 0.5X on a succession of still and video cameras for many years and my new Panasonic 800 is the only one I have had that is 46mm.

In fact the rear lens cover is now a bit stretched after going over stepping rings for years and is now loose. :)

Bob Aldis

colin rowe
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jgould wrote:
Looked everywhere for 46mm version of Raynox in UK but cant be found, looks like might have to order from across the water

No problem John, just buy a step up adaptor for it. I think they actually recommend using a bigger size than the cameras filter thread, read it somewhere on their site.

Colin Rowe

H and M Video
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Joined: Jun 5 1999

Use a step-up adaptor, 46 -52, to fit a Wideangle lens that I bought for a Sony VX2000 to fit my HDC-HS300. Works OK.

Harry

PC Specialist 3Gz Dual Core, Premiere CS3, Encore CS3, After Effects CS3, Matrox RT.X2, Panasonic HD HS-300, Z1E & PMW-EX3 Cams.
 
Now with a PC Specialist Quad Core i7-3770, 16GB RAM, 180GB SSD, GeForce GTX560 Ti Graphics Card, Blu-Ray & DVD R/W Burners and can't wait to set it up. Now up and running.  What a difference in Blu-Ray footage.

tom hardwick
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My mic setup menu page offers surround, zoom mic, focus mic and stereo mic. This is when you're in manual - in iA there appears to be no setting, so presumably you get whatever the intelligence thinks you should get. Never noticed this before.

colin rowe
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Sounds about right Tom.
I noticed that on the odd occasion I use i auto, when the clips are dropped onto an Edius timeline I have my normal v/a track and three audio tracke below ???, not on all clips, some are normal. Looks like the audio input is being constantly altered when in auto mode? Seems my camera is defaulting to 5.1, only for some clips, when in
i auto. Never thought about it before, as in manual I get the normal 2ch audio, must look into it

Colin Rowe

jgould
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Picked up Raynox 6600 on ebay £70 inc P&P, quite chuffed with that

tom hardwick
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Did it come with the instructions? I ask because although it appears to be a zoom-through optic it gets very soft past the 60% zoom point. This as a trade-off against barrel distortion - of which it adds very little. OK for certain special effects maybe, but beware if your v'finder isn't all it might be.

Needs a hood (hence the hood thread) because the coating is so-so (or was on mine).

tom.

Julian Barnes
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jgould wrote:
Picked up Raynox 6600 on ebay £70 inc P&P, quite chuffed with that

I was watching it as well , but there was no BIN this morn.

Julian

jgould
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Thanks Tom, read about the zoom through, one of their other lenses goes right through the telephoto range but at the expense of distortion. Ahead of you regarding lens hood, ordered one of those this morning

jgould
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Ha Ha!!!

Bought TM700 off of ebay for £100 with a fault..everytime you switch it on message would come up regarding fault & to switch off & on again, but wouldnt clear. Digiservice seamed to think it was lens problem & quoted just over £200 to rectify. Anyway the camera arrived today & works 100% last recording made on it was march 2010. I reckon lack of use meant the lens was a bit "sticky" and the journey to me has freed it off....fingers crossed!

norman55
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Just ordered TM900 - positive reports on this and other forums made it an easy decision in the end

Norman

jgould
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Tm900

Vennal Cameras of Ayr have TM900s, new UK stock, but slightly tatty sealed boxes, 12 months warranty..I offered £595 & it was accepted..only 2 left now

jgould
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Camera has arrived & in A1 condition, box just "very slightly" tatty

tom hardwick
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When I replay the AVCHD files in my NX5 I can see the settings I used throughout each shot, such as w/b, shutter speed, aperture, gain etc. I often find this very interesting, but can I see this same info on the SD900? Doesn't look like it.

Julian Barnes
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Just bought a Raynox 6600 from ebay , luckily there was only one other bidder so got it for just over £8 del , to me thats one of my better buys.

Julian

johnd
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Julian Barnes wrote:
Just bought a Raynox 6600 from ebay , luckily there was only one other bidder so got it for just over £8 del , to me thats one of my better buys.

Julian

That's an incredible price - I bet the seller is feeling sick

sanorman
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Hi guys,

I've got a quick question for you TM900 owners.

I've just bought a TM900 as a B/C Roll camera for weddings.

I currently use two Canon XHA1's as my main cameras.

My question is - as I'm shooting in 1080i on DV tape with my Canon's, what format should I shoot in on the TM900 to be able to put the footage together side by side on the same timeline in Adobe Premiere CS5.

Thanks

Steve

Claire
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Why not do a little test and just shoot some sample footage in both 50P and AVCHD. See how it works when both are dropped into your usual 1080i project setting. If Premiere CS5 treats the 50P as Edius does (don't have CS5) then it will be ok since it would drop every alternate frame so appear to be 50i. If this doesn't work out you would know to use the AVCHD setting on the camera but since this uses a lower data rate it would not be as good as the 50P which is 28Mbps.

Claire

ChrisG
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Now £556ish on Amazon plus £50 cashback

steve
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Claire wrote:
If Premiere CS5 treats the 50P as Edius does (don't have CS5) then it will be ok since it would drop every alternate frame so appear to be 50i.

Just noticed this comment. Surely omitting every other frame gives 1080p/25 not 1080i/25. For a true 1080i/25, it needs to take the odd lines from frame 1 then the even frames from frame 2 giving a 20ms time difference between the two field images. So how does Edius actually deal with the 50 progressive fields on an interlaced timeline as this is likely to become a major issue with the next generation of cameras?

Steve

Claire
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Good question Steve, you are correct. I think I was a bit wrong in what I said about frame dropping that happens if using a 25P project setting where every other frame is dropped so output (export) is genuine 25P (not PSF). Of course it is possible to choose export settings to produce PSF if needed.

50P on a 50i timeline and Edius seems to use frame 1 for field 1 and frame 2 for field 2 so output is 50i with the resultant 50% drop in vertical resolution and jaggies seen when paused, stair stepping unless deinterlaced, etc.

So it depends on project settings as to what happens to the 50P.

Claire

Claire
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Just to add, I think from stepping through the timeline in Edius and switching between show upper or show lower field (as opposed to "show each frame") it's using odd lines from frame 1 and even lines from frame 2 of the 50P to make each interlaced frame of 50i/25P.

Claire

steve
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That means that even lines of a given frame are streamed before the odd lines. If the lines are numbered from the top of the screen, the odd lines form the 'Upper Field' and the even lines form the 'Lower Field'. This seems at odds with the descriptions on my editor (Vegas Pro 10' which for virtually every 1080i/50 codec option are preset to 'Upper Field' first.

Steve

Claire
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Edius too, all HD interlaced defaults to UFF as it should be. Well, I am only going by memory from a lot of testing I did many months ago following the purchase of my TM900 and then a new 50P HDTV and a 50P capable Canopus card. It was a long saga including getting my head around this new format, the important thing now is we know that major NLE's such as Premiere CS5, Edius 5/6 and Vegas can all cope with 50P on a 50i timeline one way or another.

They may not all do it the same way depending, results can differ, for instance since you are a Vegas user, did you know Vegas is said to "pull half the fields from every 50P frame unless you tell it to undersample .5"? Also "if you should want 25P progressive output you need to disable resampling to keep the two frames from blending and producing artifacts".

With 1050/50P becoming available on many new cameras I think it's going to be a hot topic when people wonder how best to manage it when it comes to editing.

Claire

steve
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Claire wrote:
.... for instance since you are a Vegas user, did you know Vegas is said to "pull half the fields from every 50P frame unless you tell it to undersample .5"? Also "if you should want 25P progressive output you need to disable resampling to keep the two frames from blending and producing artifacts".

That's interesting. The only 50fps progressive that I can create at the moment is an artifact ridden 720p/50 on a Canon 550D. That's virtually unusable.
There is one issue though, that if there is a lot of movement in the scene, skipping every other frame without combining the skipped and kept frame pairs would give the same effect of shooting with half the shutter angle, giving a gritty motion that may not be in keeping with the film maker's intention. An alternative might be to apply motion blur, which could also create unwanted artifacts.

Steve

ChrisG
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OK, now a fully joined up member. It arrived yesterday.

Given that majority of my video ends up on Vimeo/DVD or presented via by Ipad but I like to have occasional Blu Ray that Avchd is my natural capture and 1080p is over kill?

Chris

norman55
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Hi
Anyone using CS5 with Panasonic 900.
What's the best project settings for Premiere to edit 108050p material then link to Encore for chapters etc before burning to DVD

Norman

ChrisG
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Joined: Apr 10 1999

What a brilliant bit of kit

The manual bits are so configurable, ssh, don't tell anyone else!

ChrisG
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Today I was asked to film a kids impromptu Christmas gymkana type party thing, yup, I think that describes it pretty well.

Starting 15:30 Finishing 16:30 outside. the lighting would be challenging. The location a pit set into a hill with sky above. Artificial lighting activated part way through.

So this was going to be the first "job" the 900 undertook. Taking the results back to watch direct from the card - everyone who watched was quietly impressed. Opening the aperture setting every second round of the course with a low shutter speed (1/50) and avoiding too many focal length changes we got away with it. The sound was from the in built mike as I wanted to be informal and it did not disappoint (set to stereo).

For a camera bought for a net price after VAT and Panasonic cashback of near enough £400 I am quietly impressed...in a big way.

jgould
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260 battery now available £31 inc P&P
tom hardwick
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For such a popular camera, this battery was a long time coming.

cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Just for info - Panasonic never learn! The new HC-X900M suffers from the missing video and more importantly audio frames between the 4gig file breaks
Their answer to me was "its not a professional camcorder" as though that excuses them from this serious fault.  I have a backup cheapo JVC HM300EK
which misses NO FRAMES between file breaks, its so annoying, does anyone suffer also and agree?

CM004d8137

Arthur.S
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Mr angry from Purley has nothing on this guy. laugh
 
 
rogs
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Reminds me of a French guy, a couple of years ago, who missed the fact that a particular codec would cost extra for his Adobe Premiere output requirements.  He was furious, and posted about his annoyance on virtually every video forum for DAYS and DAYS. Didn't make any difference of course......
tom hardwick
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
I don't suffer and I don't agree, cm004d8137.  Moreover, I'll say right here that Panasonic do indeed learn, and every Panasonic camcorder I've owned has been better than the last.
 
tom.
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Hi Tom
Whether you agree or not does not alter the fact that I have serious gaps of video and audio from my HC-X900M between file breaks
Is this the model you have and you are saying you have no missing frames? - Thanks

CM004d8137

Dave Jervis
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Hmmm, HD Writer didn't fix the problem then.... ?
dave
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Hi Dave
HD Writer still created 2 files with the same problem in the editor e.g. original files were 00000.MTS and 00000.MTS
these then got transferred with another name to my folder e.g. uvwxyz.MTS and uvwxyz(2).  Importing these to either
MS Movie Maker, Premiere and I even tried Pinnacle v14 HD exactly the same result I'm afraid.  I could not achieve
the single file mentioned in this forum, was that you Dave?

CM004d8137

Dave Jervis
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
There is no single file... HD Writer makes it look like a single file only within the program... You then have to export the shorter part of that file that you want to use in your final edit.
If you attempt to export the whole lot you will just end up with another two new files that still won't edit together in your editor.
d.
Paul Jordan
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Did you try importing direct from camera or card through the Adobe Premiere Media Browser? This should work creating one large file. Or why don't you download a free trial of Sony Vegas Studio and import directly from camera or SD through Device Explorer, this works for me with creating large file and no gaps.
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Hi Paul
I did try the media browser in Premiere but still had the gap, do you have the HC-X900M?
I will try Sony Vegas in the method you suggest to see if that helps, even though I
have convinced myself it is a hardware issue with the camera I am more than willing
to be proved wrong by you guys that have probably delved deeper into things
than I have using Premier, MS Movie Maker and Pinnacle HD, thanks again for
your advice and time.

CM004d8137

rogs
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
This 'quirk' has been doing the rounds for quite a while, and only seems to affect the Panasonic 'consumer' camcorders. As they say themselves, this model is not a 'professional' camcorder.
 
It was disccused at some length during this thread, for example:
 
As it seems to be a major problem for the user in this case, it might be that cm0048137 would be better off changing to a Sony model camcorder .. or perhaps another JVC?....
As it seems to be present on several Panasonic models, it's probably unlikely that they are going to do anything about it....
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
I think you have hit the nail on the head Rogs, unfortunately with the demise of the camcorder mags the only
place to get info now is off the net.  I had ploughed through several review sites but I have now found
this to be either biased of incorrect, in future I will look to these sort of forums where real people have had
real experiences using the devices.  Thanks for pointing me at the other thread etc.  C

CM004d8137

Paul Jordan
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
I have the Panasonic SD900, the previous model to your one so maybe it is different but I reckon the file structure will be identical. The Vegas route works well for me, here is an extract from the manual:
 
"The Device Explorer allows you to browse and import clips from AVCHD devices or CompactFlash-based memory recording units such as the HVR-MRC1.

This feature is available only in Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum.

From the View menu, choose Device Explorer. The Device Explorer window is displayed.

Connect your camera or device to a USB 2.0 port on your computer. The device is displayed on the left side of the Device Explorer window.
Select your device on the left side of the Device Explorer window. The clips are displayed on the right side of the window, and clips that have not yet been imported are indicated with an  icon."
 
It is important that you that you do not transfer any clips to your hard drive first and do the import directly from the camera/SD card straight into the editing program. Hope this helps.
 
 
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Once again Paul many thanks for your help, I'm interested in
"It is important that you that you do not transfer any clips to your hard drive first
and do the import directly from the camera/SD card straight into the editing program."
I will do a recording again from scratch and import from Premiere browser first before
doing anything and then go down the Vegas route if still a problem - cheers

CM004d8137

infocus2
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
rogs wrote:
This 'quirk' has been doing the rounds for quite a while, and only seems to affect the Panasonic 'consumer' camcorders. As they say themselves, this model is not a 'professional' camcorder.
 
.......
As it seems to be present on several Panasonic models, it's probably unlikely that they are going to do anything about it....
Not sure about the first section - I think it's an "issue" with the Panasonic implementation of the AVC-HD codec - not any particular camera model. Hence as likely to show itself with their prosumer cameras as much as the consumer versions.
 
From what I hear, it's not a camera issue as such, more the Panasonic codec "arguing" with *SOME* software. I gather that Panasonic are well aware of it - so if they are denying what is reported, they don't come out of it too well - but have previously stated that it's not there problem, it's an issue for the software companies. Fair point on one hand (if you replay in camera, say, you won't get any dropped frames over file joins) - but the relevant software companies say that their software works fine with all other makes so it's up to Panasonic to deal with. Impasse.
 
I'm not aware of any list that says what software has a problem with the Panasonic codec with long files. Failing that, if long recordings are important to you the safest option is probably to buy from a different manufacturer. It would be more helpful if Panasonic were to publish their own list of which software has a problem with their codec in the meantime, and more honest than simply retreating into denial.
colin rowe
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
This is a strange one, I have been using a TM900 for 18 months as B cam, and more recently as A cam at weddings. I have never once suffered from dropped frames as mentioned above. clips are imported to HDD using HD writer AE3, no dropped frames, no problem.

Colin Rowe

cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
When I read some internet reviews they were saying the X900M was just a `minor` upgrade to the
TM900 but perhaps there were more `changes` than the reviewers thought.  So far I have not had
a X900M user respond, which again emphasises my point.

CM004d8137

infocus2
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
colin rowe wrote:
I have never once suffered from dropped frames as mentioned above. clips are imported to HDD using............
Colin, from everything I've heard, the key point is that it's an incompatability between the Panasonic codec implementation and *SOME* software. Which is why it's a problem to some people, but not others. And only if you rely on continuous long form recordings.
 
Unfortunately Panasonic feel it's an issue for the software vendors, the latter feel that it's a Panasonic issue and their software conforms to the AVC-HD spec. No other cameras throw up the same issues with their software.
 
I don't want to take sides as to who is right and wrong, but do feel Panasonic should at least acknowledge the issue and ideally publish what software is known to have problems. Then users will know where they stand and can either avoid relevant software or a Panasonic camera. Saying "we're not aware of a problem" is just dishonest when it's been so widely reported.
sleepytom
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
why is this in two threads currently? 
 
I have a TM700 and have never seen this issue inspite of the fact that the camera is often locked off and left recording for hours at a time. 
I've always used the correct method for importing the footage via either sony vegas or adobe premiere. 
 
It seems like this issues only affects people using low grade editing software and/or failing to correctly import the avchd by simply copying the .mts files from the cards. 
 
Why Panasonic don't take responsibility for their custormers inability to use the equipment they have purchased is beyond me!? Why can't they make their system work with every 3rd party NLE, regardless of how poorly it is writen? 
 
come on this is getting silly! The panasonic avchd system works perfectly well providing you follow the instructions and use decent quality editing software. 

You can contact me at http://tombassford.org
People interested in live production might like to check out http://atemuser.com 

infocus2
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
sleepytom wrote:
I have a TM700 and have never seen this issue inspite of the fact that the camera is often locked off and left recording for hours at a time.
And neither have many other people, that's the whole point. It's an incompatability between the Panasonic version of the codec and some software.
Quote:
It seems like this issues only affects people using low grade editing software and/or failing to correctly import the avchd by simply copying the .mts files from the cards.       Why Panasonic don't take responsibility for their custormers inability to use the equipment they have purchased is beyond me!?
It doesn't seem to be simply down to "low grade editing software" and neither is it operator error. I did say I wasn't going to take sides, but it may be as accurate to say that it's down to poorly implemented codec as poorly written software. Panasonic say "our codec works OK with much software" - the software vendors say "our software works OK with all other manufacturers products". You'd need an IT expert to examine the code to really decide who to have the most sympathy with.
 
But all that said, the issue exists. And what does seem wrong to me is for Panasonic to deny the existence of a problem, even if they don't believe it to be their fault.
cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
I think reading the manual thoroughly is like reading the forum thoroughly, browsing/importing the footage into Premiere (probably the best Nile in the world) 
still results in missing video and more importantly audio as previously mentioned I have not used Sony Vegas, I also repeat I have not heard from and HC-X900M
users yet.

CM004d8137

sleepytom
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
"some software" ??? Which software? Specifically which software, under which OS, with which DShow / VFW codecs installed on the machine? 
 
The trouble is that users who find they suffer from this issue almost never tell anyone what their system is and how they are trying to use it. Thus it's impossible for anyone (least of all Panasonic) to find out IF there is actually an issue, or if we are simply seeing user error and perhaps some incompatability between various 3rd party mp4 codecs.
 
Panasonic would be insane to give any serious credence to a supposed issue which they have not been given enough specific information about to really investigate. If people can present a set of parameters which result in this issue then we are at the start of being able to report in and perhapse get it fixed. The trouble is that *most* of the posts complaining about this that i've seen on the web have clearly been made by inexperianced users who comprehensivly fail to post enough info about what they were trying to do, with which bits of software, by applying which techniques. Thus it's impossible to tell the difference between a bug and a user error.
 
On this forum alone we learn that actually the panny cameras work perfectly well with Vegas, Premiere, Edius. If someone is having problems then starting with a fresh windows 7 installation and one of these popular edit packages would be the best option toward getting a system which works.

 

You can contact me at http://tombassford.org
People interested in live production might like to check out http://atemuser.com 

sleepytom
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
cm004d8137 wrote:
I think reading the manual thoroughly is like reading the forum thoroughly, browsing/importing the footage into Premiere (probably the best Nile in the world) 
still results in missing video and more importantly audio as previously mentioned I have not used Sony Vegas, I also repeat I have not heard from and HC-X900M
users yet.

Again usless to anyone wanting to help you fix the issue. 

 
which version of windows are you running? 
which version of premiere? 
which codecs do you have installed? 
 
how are you browsing / importing the clips? 
 
if you want to put a zip file on the web somewhere with the whole of one of your SD cards zipped up then i'll take a look and see if i can make it import on my system which works with every other kind of avchd i've tried. 
 
 
 

You can contact me at http://tombassford.org
People interested in live production might like to check out http://atemuser.com 

cm004d8137
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
I am not going to enter into one-up-man ship as this detracts from the real purpose of these forums but assumption is an easy mistake to make.
being an IT Manager I am confident using leading edge NLE and codecs and FS's especially in Windows 7 Pro 64 bit. I am willing to learn
should a X900M user come up with a method of eliminating the missing frames.  Panasonic sent me a brand new unit 7 months after the original
purchase so they must not think it is a 'user' issue, especially after sending them the complete folder structure of the affected footage.

CM004d8137

sleepytom
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
so you don't want anyones help then? 
 
Did the new unit help you? 
What software are you using to import the files? 
What version of premiere do you have?
Have you tried using other software (eg vegas? or edius? or FCP / Imovie) 
 
Can you put the files on the web so that people can try them on other systems?

You can contact me at http://tombassford.org
People interested in live production might like to check out http://atemuser.com 

infocus2
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
sleepytom wrote:
The trouble is that users who find they suffer from this issue almost never tell anyone what their system is and how they are trying to use it. Thus it's impossible for anyone (least of all Panasonic) to find out IF there is actually an issue, or if we are simply seeing user error and perhaps some incompatability between various 3rd party mp4 codecs.
The problem has been too widely reported to be simply dismissed as "user error", and it's something which only seems to be consistently reported by owners of Panasonic cameras. Surely Sony, Canon, JVC etc camera owners are as likely to make finger trouble mistakes as Panasonic owners? The fact that it seems to be the case in Premiere pro also seems to rule out it's simply down to "badly written software".
 
I believe cm004d8137 has taken the matter up directly with Panasonic? Yes, you should report as much detail as possible, but I wonder if after all the other postings (try googling "panasonic avchd missing frames") they got back to ask him such details specifically?
 
I seem to recall him posting that the answer went along the lines of "well, what do you expect in a consumer camera?"
sleepytom
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Re: The Panasonic TM 900 club
Other discussions suggest that using an MTS joiner or using the proper import methods in recent PP CS5/5.5/6 allow users to circumnavigate the issue. 
 
It would be interesting to know which of these techniques CM004d8137 has tried, and in which ways they failed to help. 
 

You can contact me at http://tombassford.org
People interested in live production might like to check out http://atemuser.com