Shooting from a vehicle

The last time I did this was to film a horse/carriage.
Presumably the speed was around 15-20 mph but still found it a struggle to keep the camera steady - free hand with elbows supported.
It's surprising how bumpy our roads are when you do this. I'm guessing some sort of freeholding on cushion, or sandbag draped over tailgate will give solidity with 'give' from vibration. Though i was in urban area - dual carriageways etc may be smoother if you are lucky.
Police would normally stop most of us from doing what you describe, withour prior arrangement. Having them their will mean they will turn a blind eye in the circumstance if you mention it from the offset with the officer in charge.
Hague do various car mounts that may be worth a look.
http://www.b-hague.co.uk/hague_camera_clamps_brackets_mounts.htm
HTH

Done a couple of these! Horse & Carriage for one & in front of the Groom en route to his wedding in a Hot Rod. I mounted a small cam onto a pan & tilt Hague suction mount on the windscreen of my 3 series Black Man`s Wheels so that I could control the cam & also fed a videoshot to a 7" monitor so that I could see what I was getting, That way I didn`t fall foul of the "elf n safety" brigade! I also seperately drove the route so that I had some cuttaways.Then, using Liquid & a plug in by Mercali (A steady move plug in) tidied & edited it up. The couple were delighted.

Hope that gives you something to work on.

The letter of the law states that anyone travelling in a moving vehicle on a public road should be "properly restrained", which is normally taken to mean wearing a seat belt. I'm not sure I share David's optimism

You're effectively asking them to condone law breaking in a very public place - Tony may be lucky, but I wouldn't count on it.

Health and Safety? I'm afraid it's the case of everybody now being penalised because a few push the boundaries too far. A classic case even made it on to "You've Been Framed" some years ago, showing a police video of film crew in the open back of an estate , camera on tripod, as they went down a motorway slip road. They apparently were successfully prosecuted.

In one aspect you will not achieve a lot by filming a moving convoy. But if you must then i would have a passenger with me who has the ability to take a few shoots with your camera.

Moderator?

Bob, do you have a problem with this? It`s a common term for BMW`s & is certainley not intended as being racist.

Former Superintendent Chris Pretty was demoted for using the term. It is racist and being a common term does not change that fact. No doubt you could find some black people that don't find it offensive but that applies to most racist remarks. The majority of black people do find it offensive.

Why is it that when one talks video and a odd term slips out we get on our high horses and bring in remarks about what our other community friends think?. I do not wish to go down the road of a debate as this is the wrong forum.
Have we ever stopped and thought what remarks the use to describe us or use words when they communicate in write format about us.
I do apologize for bringing this up. I feel that Barry was just making a statement in a honest manner.

So being offensive is alright as long as its done in an honest manner?

By asking these questions beforehand with the appropriate figurehead usually means any issues are resolved, advice taken and you know what you can get away with and the day goes smoother and they may even work to assist you.
On the tour de france the fastest bikes have engines and often carry pillion passenger looking back at pedalist with yellow top. Is he restained? Though it's fair to say this is on a sealed off road. Maybe a friendly 'CHIPS' man will let you do the same.

Some people perform on HGV trailers without restraint, though a klingon shield is required, taking the form of lots of plywood and renaming the vehicle 'carnival float'.
Passengers on open top buses (or closed for that matter) are unrestained and would give great video view of cavalcade.

If there are anchor points in back of pick up, restraint could be made.
So yes, I have proven your point, I'm an optimist.;)

I think it pales into insignificance compared to some of the homophobic remarks which were allowed to pass here not long ago. And yet someone was in trouble for writing "Micro$oft"...

Anyway (to quote Ronnie Corbett), I digress.

Thankyou for all your comments, I'm sticking to the point of the thread, shooting from a vehicle.
This outing, called Jumbo as the first one went to Dudley zoo to see the elephants, has been run annually since 1961 so we have a personal relationship with the local police motorcyclists which means as long as common sense prevails they will go along with most things as long as we ask first.
They do a rolling road closure as we go with solo motorcyclists marshalling all the junctions so there are no other vehicles around us.
I have anchor points in the back of the pickup with a harness to clip on so I am restrained.
The convoy does tend to speed up on dual carriageways to about 40mph so I am anticipating cutting a lot. I have tried hand held from a car as a test but not turned out too well. The bean bag is certainly worth a try.
I have a bike rack that straps onto the tailgate so I'm trying to work out how to fix the camera to it to give that a try. The outing is not till September so plenty of time.
You might like to look at the website for more info. jumbogb.org
Tony

Barry, Bob,

The term is in common usage, and I find it a bit offensive, but certainly not enough for any castigation. If the general agreement is that it's racist, then I leave up to both of you to sort it out between you. It's easy to edit your own posts, and I'm most definitely not going to do it for you (although all the Moderators can).

Maybe "brothers main wheels" is more acceptable?

I`m not going to get into a protracted argument over a comment made as a joke & certainley not meant as racist! If anyone objects to it, I apologize! As with a lot of things deemed "Politically Correct" the objectors are often those who are not the supposed target but speak on behalf of those that might be.

As I said, if it offends I apologize, if a moderator wants to delete it, please do so. I will not be posting any further on the subject.

I do generally engage my brain before I put my keyboard in gear, and that includes some degree of thought about the effect on others of what I write. If I write something as a joke, as Barry Hunter says he did, then I would consider how those who are the butt of my "joke" might feel.

I am in full agreement with Bob in finding the expression used for a BMW to be racist. I had never heard that before, and I was immediately offended by it. Perhaps there's some cultural divide to blame. I live in inner London, many of my friends are from ethnic minorities, as am I, and phrases such as that used by Barry just propogate racial stereotyping. In South Devon I imagine there are not so many black people to get upset at this kind of casual racism.

Barry, thank you for apologizing for the offence you've caused, to Bob and myself at least. It doesn't take a moderator to remove your offensive comment. You can edit your own post quite easily, and I look forward to you doing so.

I can't think I've ever heard it before.

If nobody else has any pertinent comments on my original thread, ie shooting from a vehicle, I suggest that this thread be terminated. If you wish to carry on then please pm the relevant persons and do it in private.
Thank you to the people who gave me some ideas, I'll let you know the results.

Tony Saunders

I have heard it quite a few times and it has always been used in a derogatory way. I would like to hear an explanation as to how it is funny if its not racist. I also find that people who use the term "politically correct" are usually anything but.

BTW Stuart I totally agree about the homophobic threads.

Tony if your thread has been diverted I have always found it best to start another one and hope for better luck next time.

I shot some unusual mobile footage for use in a pantomime, and used the previous years version in another town as the guide for making the thing work. It was clear that the previous years footage had been shot by someone standing and shooting through the sun roof of an ordinary car. The version I was going to do was in Cardiff, so in view of the fact that video is a pretty common feature seen in the City, I asked the Police there for advice. They confirmed that the key feature was that if the vehicle has seat belts as part of it's design, then they must be used. Any external obstructions must not impact on the safety of the vehicle if involved in a collision, or obstruct the view of the driver. If you can do that, all is well. So shooting through open windows while belted up, is fine. A proper camera mount on the bonnet, if it satisfies the safety requirement, is fine. Shooting from the back of a open pickup would be allowed if the pickup is fitted with appropriate seats and belts, approved by the manufacturer, and acceptable by the insurers. This pretty well means it is a no-no. My insurers refused to consider the addition of a couple of Ford sourced seats in the rear of my Transit - despite the parts being available - if they were to be occupied when the vehicle was in motion.

Thanks Paul, I'm going to have to give this some thought

Tony

Yes, and sealed off road says it all. What you can do on an ordinary road, and what you can do on private land are totally different, it's why I initially said "in a moving vehicle on a public road". For something like the Tour de France, then the fact that no ordinary traffic is permitted on an otherwise public road means a different set of rules come in to play, makes it more like private land. But you can bet that a strict risk assessment has to be done, and more than normal motorbike insurance is needed. :) Carnivals are a similar matter, but again the road is closed to normal traffic, and the rules will certainly state a lot of conditions - a maximum (very low) speed being one of the most obvious.

The only thing I can suggest without a lot of expense is maybe something like an MPV? In some, it's possible to take the seats out and refit them facing backwards, and in some cases the seatbelts are integral with the seat, not the car. It may then also be possible to have a (securely tied down) tripod close enough to operate, and then the only other thing to worry about is how to SECURELY fix the tailgate in an open position. (Not with the producer leaning out the back and holding it open on the motorway, as in the "You've Been Framed" example! ;) )

I watched " Classic Gear" the other day and was going to mention it anyway.

The item on a Hilman Imp (I think) had a shot from the passenger seat towards the driver and (unusually) it showed the "road camera" being a pillion on a bike sitting backwards. he had a top box and seemed to be using a z7 or EX sized camera.

It looked like an open road to me

There was some weird artifact on the shots ffrom the bike camera - which was what I was originally going tp post on. Some sort of distortion that I can't describe - maybe a poor attempt at anti-shake,.

The audio in that show is also weird. The V/Os sound like they are recorded in the back of a car (maybe they are!) the last prog was better but they still sound very poor.

ITV4 Wed at 19.00

I can't speak for the accuracy of this, but a motorcycling friend (into BIG, FAST bikes, quads, and trials type stuff - a real two wheel fan) Tells me that to the best of his knowledge, there is nothing to stop pillion riders facing backwards. Nothing in his insurance documents specify forward facing, just a reference to manufacturer fitted pillion footrests. Apparently, the specs for motorcyles are quite vague, hence why it is ok for people to extend front footrests forward to give a reclined riding position. He had a think about this, and the only drawback he could think of from a riders perspective would be helmets clashing, but he thought that rider/passenger back to back contact could be safer in the case of a crash. It could be that nobody ever thought that pillion passengers would ever want to sit the other way? After all, few sports bikes even have a proper seat for a passenger any longer, and high pillion footrests and no rear support mean that fast acceleration often means they fall off!

Whatever. But if it's on public roads, always check with the police first.

A few years back I filmed on a beach from the back of a pickup truck chasing kiteboarders along the sand. I was lying on my front facing backwards with my legs harnessed - but the speeds weren't that great, perhaps 40mph tops.
The three biggest problems I encountered were
1.Vibration
Even though the sand was smooth, the vibration really was very noticeable if any zoom used, so I stuck mostly to shooting wide, which then called for trickier timing and better driver communication. Not so good. If you could hire a small stabiliser(maybe small gyro aided unit?) for the day, i think it would improve your footage. BTW what camera are you using?

2.Wind turbulence
Even at 40mph I was getting knocked about by the wind turbulence from the back of the cab. If i was doing it again, I might form a tarp tent behind me to ease the windflow around the back of the cab. Also consider driving with a tailwind( sounds bloody stupid doesnt it! ) and even trying to reduce drag on what you wear / whats on your camera. It's scary how much power turbulence can have.

3.Vehicle movement
Think this is a bit more obvious really - when you're focussed on the camera, even small changes in direction can have you lurching about - maybe think about addditonal harnessing, or if possible and, of course safe, have someone help to compensate for your body mass. Alternatively, get the driver to only drive in straight lines ;-)

Hope that helps in some way.

Was it worth it?. We hear stories of how. But never the end result if the shoots were any good for all that trouble.

Well, in a word yes, got some pretty unique footage at the time. But, due to the factors above, i guess I ended up using about 60 seconds of the 120minutes shot. Thats not a great ratio!
Was it worth it? Yes, although i did get really bad stomach cramp and hobbled for the following couple of days!

The best experience I've had shooting on the move was from the deck of a 3 ton Ford Ranchero (7 litre V8, 3-speed auto) 6-wheel modded pickup truck. The camera was on a 16 foot swinging arm on a pillar very firmly bolted to the flat bed, swung by two people. The 'cameraman' was strapped in a seat bolted to the top of the cab, recording onto a HD D5, all powered from a generator slung out in front of the engine bay. I racked the camera from inside the cab. The whole rig was 27 feet long.

All this was on private roads of course, Silverstone circuit, with top formula karts accompanying us. We did about a dozen laps,l the footage was stunning :)

A few days later we flew the kit with the Shuttleworth collection. That was even more fun:D

Sounds like Terminator (3?) where Arnie is dangling on the end of a fire truck crane.
...Just re-reading the camera was on the arm, not the cameraman :rolleyes:

The Shuttleworth collection (old aircraft, from the earliest of contraptions) is only a few miles from me. I don't recall seeing any flying Ford Rancheros.;)

No, we flew in a Castle Air chopper. Right hand passenger door taken off, camera seat mounted in the doorway, feet dangling out. Huge stack of kit where the lleft-hand passenger is normally. 2 traction battery powered inverters in the co-pilot seat, me racking on the back seat (6-seat chopper) with no pic monitor (it's amazing what you can do with a waveform monitor if you know what you're doing).

Reminds me of an episode of Top gear I was watching the other day!

See p32 of latest TV-Bay (issue 032). They have an article on the hovercams use in Top Gear. tv-bay.com

Most hairaising "Shooting from a vehicle" was in the late `80's when our local swimming club was raising funds for a trip to Hameln & had a sponsored parachute jump. I recorded the event including one of the jumpers. It was Eaglescott in North Devon. A 4 seater plane with only a seat for the pilot, 1 Jumpmaster, 1 Parachutist & me. When the Parachutist exited, the pilot held onto my waistband, jumpmaster had his hands on my shoulders & I was hanging out of the side door getting the shot whilst the pilot did a downward circle to allow my to get the footage. Definately wouldn`t be allowed to happen these days & I still have the footage :-)

When Madam saw the rushes she was not amused!

I'm sure Barry meant no offence but it did make me wince.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what "Offence" I might have possibly caused? I PM`d Hedleyw but no response!

My guess: I wouldn't get away with referring to my "current wife" as "Madam" - just as you might not get away with calling Madam your "current wife".

It's only a guess.......BTW It's my shout if you're at the IOV Conference again.

Well as a baldy I am most offended and feel left out of hair-raising activities.;)

Seriously, I had to re-read your post following Hedleyws post and can't even guess.

Though it may be scarey from a H&S point of view, but after seeing novice film makers on current TV series competing by swimming with sharks and abseiling down a cliff face to killer bees(or was it wasps) it seems you were in safe hands.
It could be said, even though you were flying by the seat of your pants, had belt and braces safety!:eek: :D

I thought it was me! not being the most PC person on the block, I`d hate to offend anyone!!! :-)

Sorry Barry, I missed the private message - always forgetting to check for them.

Re-reading where my post lays in the thread I should have included a quote..

"It`s a common term for BMW`s & is certainley not intended as being racist."

It may be common but I've never heard anyone of that particular ethnic group use the term and find it derogatory. If I'm alone I guess I'm just too sensitive, I'll keep my head down in the future ;)

I realise that you have drawn a line under it Barry, I'm not looking to stimulate further debate on the matter but reserve my right to make my own response in public.

I thought you were refering to my recent post re the Eaglescott Parachute jump! I never even thought of the earlier one as flak had already been taken over that.

Cripes Hedley, you're digging up ghosts from 2 months ago.

Time saving tip for regular thread readers:
Go to 'User CP (Control panel)' / Edit options / Thread display options /Thread display mode and set to 'Linear - newest first'.

I think this is different from the default and saves paging through the longer threads to reach the latest comment.

Cheers Dave :-)

If only you could see the blushing at this end! For some reason I didn't look at the thread when it first started, only noticed it a couple of days ago and didn't look at the dates as I read through it.

No wonder you were scratching your heads :)